Discussion:
[tw5] TW5 Customization
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Mohammad
2018-08-30 13:49:09 UTC
Permalink
As you know the TW vanilla for end user should be customized for example
one
may needs to have

- Highlights.js plugin
- KaTex plugin
- Some CSS tiddlers customize for fonts and colorbox
- Material theme
- ...

Is there any way to have a script or a way to bundle all of these into a
single JSON file to be imported to customize the new empty-5.x.x.html ?
I dont want to do this by adding plugins and tiddlers one by one?

-Mohammad
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-30 14:07:09 UTC
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M,

Use PMario's BUNDLER.
https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/bundler/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Fwikilabs%2Fbundler

J.
Post by Mohammad
As you know the TW vanilla for end user should be customized for example
one
may needs to have
- Highlights.js plugin
- KaTex plugin
- Some CSS tiddlers customize for fonts and colorbox
- Material theme
- ...
Is there any way to have a script or a way to bundle all of these into a
single JSON file to be imported to customize the new empty-5.x.x.html ?
I dont want to do this by adding plugins and tiddlers one by one?
-Mohammad
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TonyM
2018-08-30 14:36:17 UTC
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Mohammad,

The bundler plugin is a great tool as josiah said, and I use it a lot. However in the advanced search filter tab you can name multiple filters and tiddlers including plugin tiddlers themself and export them as a single json file.

I now often drop a multiple tiddler json file without plugins (no save and reload needed) on tiddlywiki.com to apply all my prefered settings on it.

Regards tony
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Eric Shulman
2018-08-30 14:40:34 UTC
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Post by Mohammad
Is there any way to have a script or a way to bundle all of these into a
single JSON file to be imported to customize the new empty-5.x.x.html ?
I dont want to do this by adding plugins and tiddlers one by one?
You can drag-and-drop an entire TW file to import all the tiddlers it
contains. For your purposes, start with an empty.html and drop any of your
existing TW files on it. Then, review the list of tiddlers to be imported,
and de-select any tiddlers that are not desired. Press the "import" button
to import the selected tiddlers. Save the file. This will be your new
starting document any time you need a new "custom empty" file.

-e
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Mohammad
2018-08-30 15:18:47 UTC
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Thank you Eric, Josiah, and Tony!

In this way does the setting like sidebar layout is also imported? I mean
those customized setting you may have?

-Mohammad
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-30 15:28:04 UTC
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yes.
Post by Mohammad
Thank you Eric, Josiah, and Tony!
In this way does the setting like sidebar layout is also imported? I mean
those customized setting you may have?
-Mohammad
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Mohammad
2018-08-30 16:13:16 UTC
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Thank you!

-Mohammad
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TonyM
2018-08-31 00:54:01 UTC
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Mohammad,

I tend to drop json files with some configuration not the whole thing. To
do this you need to identify the tiddlers you want to capture. See this
tiddler that displays recent temp config and state tiddlers. Or use the
other custom side bar tabs to identify the changes you want to capture.

https://tiddlywiki.psat.com.au/#%24%3A%2FPSaT%2FTempTimeline%2FSideBar

If you drop this tiddler on a wiki, lets say tiddlywiki.com you can make
configuration changes and see what changes, even include those tiddlers in
your config package.

Regards
Tony
Post by Mohammad
Thank you Eric, Josiah, and Tony!
In this way does the setting like sidebar layout is also imported? I mean
those customized setting you may have?
-Mohammad
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Mohammad
2018-08-31 05:17:58 UTC
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Thanks Tony!
I understood some TW settings are stored in some state tiddlers, so I need
to export them among other plugins and tiddlers.

Cheers
Mohammad
Post by TonyM
Mohammad,
I tend to drop json files with some configuration not the whole thing. To
do this you need to identify the tiddlers you want to capture. See this
tiddler that displays recent temp config and state tiddlers. Or use the
other custom side bar tabs to identify the changes you want to capture.
https://tiddlywiki.psat.com.au/#%24%3A%2FPSaT%2FTempTimeline%2FSideBar
If you drop this tiddler on a wiki, lets say tiddlywiki.com you can make
configuration changes and see what changes, even include those tiddlers in
your config package.
Regards
Tony
Post by Mohammad
Thank you Eric, Josiah, and Tony!
In this way does the setting like sidebar layout is also imported? I mean
those customized setting you may have?
-Mohammad
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PMario
2018-08-31 06:45:31 UTC
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Post by Mohammad
Thanks Tony!
I understood some TW settings are stored in some state tiddlers, so I need
to export them among other plugins and tiddlers.
The existing import mechanism doesn't import "$:/state.. " tiddlers. ...
Which imo is an issue, but was implemented for a reason.

I'll check if the "bundler-plugin" can include an import-mechanism that
allows us to import state-tiddlers.

-m
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TonyM
2018-08-31 06:54:14 UTC
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Mario,

Good idea, However unless bundles is installed I assume they will not be.
Something to note when you update the bundles plugin

Fortunately visibility, config and temp tiddlers still work I assume.

Regards
Tony
Post by PMario
Post by Mohammad
Thanks Tony!
I understood some TW settings are stored in some state tiddlers, so I
need to export them among other plugins and tiddlers.
The existing import mechanism doesn't import "$:/state.. " tiddlers. ...
Which imo is an issue, but was implemented for a reason.
I'll check if the "bundler-plugin" can include an import-mechanism that
allows us to import state-tiddlers.
-m
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PMario
2018-09-06 13:54:22 UTC
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Post by TonyM
Mario,
Good idea, However unless bundles is installed I assume they will not be.
Post by TonyM
Something to note when you update the bundles plugin
I think, with TW we are in a state now, where every extension to "the
core", needs to "prove its value", by being a plugin first.

Once we ironed out the hickups in the plugin, we can think about creating
pull requests for the core. ...

In this "special" case I think the existing mechanism protects the user. So
imo we need to be careful.

-m
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-06 11:27:48 UTC
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PMario ..
I'll check if the "bundler-plugin" can include an import-mechanism that
allows us to import state-tiddlers.
I noticed you can bundle "$:/state..." tiddlers in a JSON but TW won't
import them.

Enabling import of them could be good in some situations. For example I
have a tool that I use a lot to calculate aspect ratios and other
conversions. Though the state tiddlers change according to user input, on
"first--time--run" I use them for initial values which I'd like to be able
to transport rather than have to redo 60.

Best wishes
Josiah
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PMario
2018-09-06 12:12:46 UTC
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PMario ..
Post by PMario
I'll check if the "bundler-plugin" can include an import-mechanism that
allows us to import state-tiddlers.
I noticed you can bundle "$:/state..." tiddlers in a JSON but TW won't
import them.
The plugin import mechanism basically uses the core functions. So I didn't
have to overwrite and especially TEST them ;)

Importing everything, like _outdated_ plugins, it's possible to create
bundles, that can completely mess up your TW.

- In the best case like $:/state/* tiddlers, they can mess up your UI
settings.
- In the *worst case* ... old and/or broken plugins can totally mess up
your TW ... That's why they are completely removed from the import tiddler

Once they are removed you still can "re-enable" the checkbox in the UI ...
BUT ... They won't be imported, because the are already gone. ... For
plugins, that's a feature.

The same mechanism is used for $:/state tiddlers. ... So re-enabling them
doesn't work, with the core-import mechanism.
Enabling import of them could be good in some situations. For example I
have a tool that I use a lot to calculate aspect ratios and other
conversions. Though the state tiddlers change according to user input, on
"first--time--run" I use them for initial values which I'd like to be able
to transport rather than have to redo 60.
Yea ... That's right. ..

I would like to create bundles, that can be used to open the eg: "*$:/ControlPanel:
Appearence: Toolbars: Editor*" tab. It will make it much easier for me to
point new users into the right directions ... here in the group.

This mechanism is called app-deep-linking
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_deep_linking>, which is not possible
at the moment, but imo it should be.

- It would also add the possibility to create "offline interactive
trainings" for TW.
- Or "interactive program reviews"

Since bundles can track, which tiddlers are imported, it would be easy to
"uninstall / delete" them after they are not needed anymore!

have fun!
mario
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-06 13:32:34 UTC
Permalink
PMario

Thanks for your detailed note on "state" Tiddlers and the pointers to other
possibilities like "interactive training".

I think The Bundler is one of the most useful utilities for TW. It has
eased my life a lot. IMO its the first choice general tool for both moving
Tiddler sets around, portable configuration and general management of a
wiki.

-- Makes transport and archiving of Tiddlers a flexible, clear & clean
process. I found it very robust and easy to use. The way it integrates into
the UI is good too.

-- It is increasingly needed as TW is growing add-ons, plugins, macro
bits, CSS tweaks etc at a fast rate. Just keeping track of good things can
be a major hassle. To gave an example, when I set-up a new TW, depending
on its usage requirements, I drag and drop up to 9 bundles according to
what is needed. If I did that item by item for the components the bundles
now hold if would take hours to locate them all, even if I could remember
them.

-- Management of what you have. I also use the bundler in both list &
filter mode simply to know what I have in the wiki, what needs archiving &
what can be deleted.

There are two issues I mentioned before in some of the early threads on the
bundler which I still hope you might be able to address?

1 -- *Have a way of adding comments in Bundler Lists* such that it does not
throw the count off. I found comments essential to have in complex bundles
so you can see at a glance what they contain. Currently I use a pseudo
Tiddler title like [[--- Comment Here ---]] to do that. But it throws the
count off. If I could have only one request dealt with it would be for this
:-).

2 -- I still wonder if there is a way that a Bundle List could have *a
"destroy mode" *such that, for instance, a list would appear with
checkboxes next to each item allowing deletion when in destroy mode? Even
better a "select all" too? Something like that.

Thanks for a really great tool!

Josiah
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PMario
2018-09-06 14:18:49 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 3:32:35 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
....
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
-- Makes transport and archiving of Tiddlers a flexible, clear & clean
process. I found it very robust and easy to use. The way it integrates into
the UI is good too.
Thx.
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
-- It is increasingly needed as TW is growing add-ons, plugins, macro
bits, CSS tweaks etc at a fast rate. Just keeping track of good things can
be a major hassle. To gave an example, when I set-up a new TW, depending
on its usage requirements, I drag and drop up to 9 bundles according to
what is needed. If I did that item by item for the components the bundles
now hold if would take hours to locate them all, even if I could remember
them.
That's a usecase, I didn't see at the beginning.

For me the first usecase was, to create "proof of concepts" + some docs,
that a user can easily include ... AND .. delete, after the tiddlers are
not used anymore.
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
There are two issues I mentioned before in some of the early threads on
the bundler which I still hope you might be able to address?
1 -- *Have a way of adding comments in Bundler Lists* such that it does
not throw the count off. I found comments essential to have in complex
bundles so you can see at a glance what they contain. Currently I use a
pseudo Tiddler title like [[--- Comment Here ---]] to do that. But it
throws the count off. If I could have only one request dealt with it would
be for this :-).
I was thinking about that, some time ago. ... The TW .multids-like
structure may be an option to store comments. The .multids parser already
understands them. So we could re-use existing code, without too many
modifications. .multids files are part of eg: languages
<https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/tree/master/languages/de-DE>. ...

If a line starts with a hash sign: # ... it will be treated as a comment.

The problem I saw, was, that we already have 2 formats, that do very
similar things: DataTiddlers <https://tiddlywiki.com/#DataTiddlers>:

- JSON tiddlers <https://tiddlywiki.com/#JSONTiddlers>
- Dictionary tiddlers <https://tiddlywiki.com/#DictionaryTiddlers>

JSON tiddlers don't allow comments, because of the specs.
Dictionary tiddlers are very similar to .multids, but lack comments and the
internal API isn't easy to use. ... I didn't want to create a 3rd format.

IMO a bit more thoughts may be needed.

2 -- I still wonder if there is a way that a Bundle List could have *a
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
"destroy mode" *such that, for instance, a list would appear with
checkboxes next to each item allowing deletion when in destroy mode? Even
better a "select all" too? Something like that.
Like an "uninstall-button" :) ... Yea, if you have 9 bundles with several
tiddlers installed, it can be quite challenge to uninstall them.

-mario
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-06 17:19:48 UTC
Permalink
PMario on the "commenting problem" ...
Post by PMario
IMO a bit more thoughts may be needed.
Right. Just for sake of completeness two comments ...

--- Some time ago Thomas Elmiger proposed a solution where you have a
"wrapper Tiddler" around the Bundle List that could also itself be bundled
as a kind of "Read Me". Examples here (without added details but you could
add comment you wanted): http://tinyurl.com/yaclbxj2 Discussion here with
my comments:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/_Uqbg08Pjow/PJ23RiDAAwAJ I think
it could be good where you want to describe a simple Bundle List--but if
you have a complex Bundle List and you documented in the "wrapper" its
components it would be hard to maintain if you changed anything in the
bundle. I think they would be better in the bundle itself.

--- Just a thought. Could the format stay the same BUT the counting be
sensitive to non-existent Tiddlers (which = comments)? So math is used to
reduce the displayed total?

Best wishes
Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-06 17:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Email readers: I updated my last post in this thread online in GG to
clarify what I meant. J.
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PMario
2018-09-06 21:05:28 UTC
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Post by @TiddlyTweeter
--- Just a thought. Could the format stay the same BUT the counting be
sensitive to non-existent Tiddlers (which = comments)?
Good thought!

To test the theory, just open the tiddler:
$:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/ui/Bundles and change the 2nd line

from:

\define filter-list() [enlist{$(currentTiddler)$}]

to:

\define filter-list() [enlist{$(currentTiddler)$}!prefix[--- ]]

So the *new convention would be*, that the title-prefix for a
"comment-tiddler" is *3 dashes + a space*: "--- "

Please test, if that would fit your needs.

-m
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PMario
2018-09-06 21:09:32 UTC
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Post by PMario
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
--- Just a thought. Could the format stay the same BUT the counting be
sensitive to non-existent Tiddlers (which = comments)?
Good thought!
The funny thing is, that those tiddlers would be included into the bundle,
if they actually do exist. ... So they are kind of "shadow bundled" :)
They can contain more documentation if needed.

... I actually like that idea.

-m
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-07 14:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Ciao PMario

I'm testing now. Please note I think you meant to "change the \define in
..."



*$:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/ui/BundlesList*
J, x
... open the tiddler: $:/plugins/wikilabs/bundler/ui/Bundles and change
the 2nd line
\define filter-list() [enlist{$(currentTiddler)$}]
\define filter-list() [enlist{$(currentTiddler)$}!prefix[--- ]]
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-07 14:34:48 UTC
Permalink
PMario asks ...
Post by PMario
So the *new convention would be*, that the title-prefix for a
"comment-tiddler" is *3 dashes + a space*: "--- "
Please test, if that would fit your needs.
Brilliant! Thank you. It works for my use case perfectly. All my numbers
are now correct.

In addition it is worth noting ...

-- *IF you make a mistake* in how you enter a comment the count X/X won't
match. So this immediately helped me fix two bundles where the start (a
typo) was "[--- " rather than "[[--- ", and another where I only had 2
dashes not 3. So it gives a kind of proxy error-check that is useful.

-- Regarding a release of this. Not sure if possible be being able to *configure
the "comment prefix"* might suit users who don't want my string.

-- The fact that you could actually make a Tiddler starting with the
comment prefix that would (1) not be counted but (2) would be transported
is an interesting side effect. I can imagine a scenario where it could have
utility. For instance a "Read Me First" note that is useful but not part of
the actual mechanisms you are transporting.

Best wishes
Josiah
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TonyM
2018-09-06 23:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Josiah, and Mario,

I am using bundles for a lot for things, usually reusable code but
sometimes for copying or moving tiddlers.

The destroy mode you are looking for is there for whole of bundle deleted
by clicking on the number next to the bundle in the side bar. In the
advanced search window you can select delete.

This draws attention that bundles are basically filters or lists of
tiddlers. As a result there are plenty of solutions that can help use and
manipulate them. So it would be easy to create a generic tool for deleting
items in a list and provide the bundle list/filter to it. And this tool
will be used elsewhere.

On the comment tiddler idea I have a tiddler naming standard that includes
a tiddler with this information in my bundles including in its fields the
name of the owner wiki.

If there were one feature in bundles I would like, But I do not know how to
do it. It would be if I could allow bundles to be imported only if a
condition were true, such as do not import the bundle to the wiki that
generated it (unless acknowledged)

egards
Tony
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
PMario
Thanks for your detailed note on "state" Tiddlers and the pointers to
other possibilities like "interactive training".
I think The Bundler is one of the most useful utilities for TW. It has
eased my life a lot. IMO its the first choice general tool for both moving
Tiddler sets around, portable configuration and general management of a
wiki.
-- Makes transport and archiving of Tiddlers a flexible, clear & clean
process. I found it very robust and easy to use. The way it integrates into
the UI is good too.
-- It is increasingly needed as TW is growing add-ons, plugins, macro
bits, CSS tweaks etc at a fast rate. Just keeping track of good things can
be a major hassle. To gave an example, when I set-up a new TW, depending
on its usage requirements, I drag and drop up to 9 bundles according to
what is needed. If I did that item by item for the components the bundles
now hold if would take hours to locate them all, even if I could remember
them.
-- Management of what you have. I also use the bundler in both list &
filter mode simply to know what I have in the wiki, what needs archiving &
what can be deleted.
There are two issues I mentioned before in some of the early threads on
the bundler which I still hope you might be able to address?
1 -- *Have a way of adding comments in Bundler Lists* such that it does
not throw the count off. I found comments essential to have in complex
bundles so you can see at a glance what they contain. Currently I use a
pseudo Tiddler title like [[--- Comment Here ---]] to do that. But it
throws the count off. If I could have only one request dealt with it would
be for this :-).
2 -- I still wonder if there is a way that a Bundle List could have *a
"destroy mode" *such that, for instance, a list would appear with
checkboxes next to each item allowing deletion when in destroy mode? Even
better a "select all" too? Something like that.
Thanks for a really great tool!
Josiah
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PMario
2018-09-07 10:52:53 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 1:24:49 AM UTC+2, TonyM wrote:

The destroy mode you are looking for is there for whole of bundle deleted
Post by TonyM
by clicking on the number next to the bundle in the side bar. In the
advanced search window you can select delete.
That's right, but it's only available for filtered bundles. ...
Post by TonyM
If there were one feature in bundles I would like, But I do not know how
to do it. It would be if I could allow bundles to be imported only if a
condition were true, such as do not import the bundle to the wiki that
generated it (unless acknowledged)
That is hard to find out by the plugin. So the user will need to help :)
...

It may be possible, to define a "config-tiddler" that contains a filter.
...
If the filter returns true all elements of the bundle could be disabled by
default. ...
With the option to re-enable them again .

I need to improve the import mechanism, so it's worth to think about that
too?

have fun!
mario
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TonyM
2018-09-07 12:28:21 UTC
Permalink
Mario,

Yes, improving the import mechanisium would help a few things. I have raised it previously but also discovered how the tempoary import tiddler is generated. A hook to allow additional logic to be placed inside that tiddler should be trivial and plugins like your bundler could add their own additional logic. Otherwise overriding the shadow tiddler will work.

Regards
Tony
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-09-07 15:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Ciao PMario & TonyM

Regarding DELETION of items in Bundle Lists (not Filtered) ...

Its an interesting issue. And in my specific use case it doesn't look that
easy. An example will show why ...

title: bundle.base tag: $:/tags/Bundle
bundle.base

[[--- PMario's plugin that enables opening tabs as untabbed Tiddlers ---]]
$:/plugins/wikilabs/link-to-tabs

[[--- Felix's flow adjustment ---]]
$:/plugins/felixhayashi/topstoryview

[[--- Base changes in CSS ---]]
$:/css.tweaks.basic

[[--- Hide descriptions in Tools menu ---]]
$:/core/ui/SideBar/Tools

In this use case there are (1) disparate types and names of Tiddlers
(filtering too complex); (2) there are multiple components only one or two
of which I may want to delete, not all of them.

So the problem arises of HOW to delete one or more items AND leave the rest
intact AND update the Bundle to match. Currently I do it all manually.

That is just my typical use-case. Other use cases likely would not have
that complexity and could likely be done more easily.

FWIW to make my manual "pruning" easier when I need to find and delete in
the TW something listed in a bundle I change content Type to
"text/vnd.tiddlywiki" the easier to navigate to them, then delete. Then I
switch the bundle back to "text/plain" and edit out lines of items now
gone. Its cumbersome but okay.

Best wishes
Josiah
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TonyM
2018-09-08 02:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Gentlemen,

Running with my own idea on this I have modified the import mechanism to
allow additional code to be added to the import process

Basically with my modified system tiddler $:/core/ui/ImportListing you
create a tiddler (sample Provided) tagged $:/tags/importcolumn

In such a import column tiddler the following fields are transcluded as
follows

- above-listing Shows above the import table - perhaps use to indicate
instructions
- below-listing Shows below the import table - who knows
- caption is used as a column heading - and can provide tooltip and/or
link to the import column tiddler
- text contains the wiki text to use for each import item - for example
show tiddlers with a specific field

In my first test I use it to interrogate the wiki-owner field of incoming
tiddlers, and I can uncheck those owned by the current wiki. Import this
bundle, then import it a second time to see it in operation.

For those already familiar with tiddlywiki the are a lot of ways you can
interrogate or manipulate the list with these hooks, and bundles and
plugins can include their own additional import support tools. I am yet to
investigate removing items from the import list automagicaly, but I expect
it is possible at worst with a button.

Since this is perhaps less than 100-200 bytes it makes sense for this or a
re-worked version be added to the core $:/core/ui/ImportListing tiddler
such that any plugin or user can extend the import function as needed
without modifying the shadow tiddler.

Please give me your feedback before I submit it to the GitHub Issues, as
"Extensible import facility"

PS in the above discussion about bundles I would like to add I quickly
abandoned using the standard bundle, and now only use the filtered bundles
since it is easy to list tiddlers in the filter anyway.

Regards
Tony
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
Ciao PMario & TonyM
Regarding DELETION of items in Bundle Lists (not Filtered) ...
Its an interesting issue. And in my specific use case it doesn't look that
easy. An example will show why ...
title: bundle.base tag: $:/tags/Bundle
bundle.base
[[--- PMario's plugin that enables opening tabs as untabbed Tiddlers ---]]
$:/plugins/wikilabs/link-to-tabs
[[--- Felix's flow adjustment ---]]
$:/plugins/felixhayashi/topstoryview
[[--- Base changes in CSS ---]]
$:/css.tweaks.basic
[[--- Hide descriptions in Tools menu ---]]
$:/core/ui/SideBar/Tools
In this use case there are (1) disparate types and names of Tiddlers
(filtering too complex); (2) there are multiple components only one or two
of which I may want to delete, not all of them.
So the problem arises of HOW to delete one or more items AND leave the
rest intact AND update the Bundle to match. Currently I do it all manually.
That is just my typical use-case. Other use cases likely would not have
that complexity and could likely be done more easily.
FWIW to make my manual "pruning" easier when I need to find and delete in
the TW something listed in a bundle I change content Type to
"text/vnd.tiddlywiki" the easier to navigate to them, then delete. Then I
switch the bundle back to "text/plain" and edit out lines of items now
gone. Its cumbersome but okay.
Best wishes
Josiah
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