Discussion:
[tw5] Bob Tips -- Session 1
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-18 19:36:29 UTC
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Jed's Bob is great. Since it interacts with the OS environment I thought it
worth making a few points that he's likely not to know about in usage. I
only use Windows so my tips are limited. Here is a start ...

_CONSOLE SIZE_

On Windows I set the Properties for the console for Bob like this ...



The very wide width of the console makes Bob's messages more readable as
they don't wrap ... for instance ...


You have tips too?

Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-18 20:46:19 UTC
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_NOTES ON WINDOWS PROGRAM LAUNCHING IN BOB_

Some time ago (the problem
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/cQRhkfhvbVk/kHUAQt-0AAAJ>, here
on) we found out that if you launch a command-line program--i.e. not a
windows GUI program--in Bob it crashes Bob on completion. This is because
on exit it sends a message to the OS saying "done".

The way round this is to use BATCH or CMD files. These are child processes
that don't crash Bob. Those files can also be used to launch completely
separate command processors if needed, rather than children.

A couple of things are worth noting ...

1 -- you can DIRECTLY launch a Windows GUI program from Bob easily without
issue. But note when you close Bob that program will terminate too.
Terminating the program does not terminate Bob, but terminating Bob will
always terminate it IF it was launched directly via a command line.
Depending on the use case this could be useful or not.

2 -- To avoid issues in (1), if you need to, you can launch BATCH or CMD
files that can be set to create new command processors. You have to play a
bit to work out if they persist when Bob closes. (I haven't quite worked
out yet exactly when the "/K" [force new command processor] is actually
needed or not, though that's the most robust option). FWIW, I am able to
launch TiddlyDesktop instances, both singularly and in bulk from Bob that
persist beyond the session without special options ...

Straight command-line processor commands via BATCH or CMD files also work
well. Both correctly inherit command line options you can define via Bob.
They also correctly inherit any environment variables that the mother
command processor holds.

You have Bob tips?

I'd be interested (they don't have to be for Windows; actually I'm
interested if the other platforms have the issues above too).

Josiah
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TonyM
2018-07-19 01:04:56 UTC
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Josiah,

Thanks for sharing, I am keen to do this soon and are thankful for your
guidance,

My Trivial tips are;

- Set bob (and tiddlyServer) to a different port number like 8084 8085
8088 so that any other install that uses port 8080 automatically will not
compeat
- Place {{$:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/Wiki Listing}} in your home tiddler for
a quick directory to other bob wikis
- Using bob allows you to accidentally open the same wiki without
problems, this allows you to open your additional wikis only when you need
them, rather than checking if the are already open
- Using Bob you can access another wiki via an iframe, at the bob
address because dragging and dropping between wikis do not cause problems
if the wiki is in another window/tab

I will share more once I build my Desktop automation tools

Regards
Tony
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
_NOTES ON WINDOWS PROGRAM LAUNCHING IN BOB_
Some time ago (the problem
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/cQRhkfhvbVk/kHUAQt-0AAAJ>,
here on) we found out that if you launch a command-line program--i.e. not a
windows GUI program--in Bob it crashes Bob on completion. This is because
on exit it sends a message to the OS saying "done".
The way round this is to use BATCH or CMD files. These are child processes
that don't crash Bob. Those files can also be used to launch completely
separate command processors if needed, rather than children.
A couple of things are worth noting ...
1 -- you can DIRECTLY launch a Windows GUI program from Bob easily without
issue. But note when you close Bob that program will terminate too.
Terminating the program does not terminate Bob, but terminating Bob will
always terminate it IF it was launched directly via a command line.
Depending on the use case this could be useful or not.
2 -- To avoid issues in (1), if you need to, you can launch BATCH or CMD
files that can be set to create new command processors. You have to play a
bit to work out if they persist when Bob closes. (I haven't quite worked
out yet exactly when the "/K" [force new command processor] is actually
needed or not, though that's the most robust option). FWIW, I am able to
launch TiddlyDesktop instances, both singularly and in bulk from Bob that
persist beyond the session without special options ...
Straight command-line processor commands via BATCH or CMD files also work
well. Both correctly inherit command line options you can define via Bob.
They also correctly inherit any environment variables that the mother
command processor holds.
You have Bob tips?
I'd be interested (they don't have to be for Windows; actually I'm
interested if the other platforms have the issues above too).
Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-19 08:49:10 UTC
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Ciao TonyM

Good stuff. Useful for Bob users to be aware of ...
- Set bob ... to a different port number like 8084 8085 8088 so that
any other install that uses port 8080 automatically will not compete
- Place {{$:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/Wiki Listing}} in your home tiddler
for a quick directory to other bob wikis
- Using bob allows you to accidentally open the same wiki without
problems, this allows you to open your additional wikis only when you need
them, rather than checking if the are already open
I assume you mean here that Bob's "locking" mechanism prevents problems
with two or more instances of the same wiki open? Such that if you editing
a Tiddler in one instance the other instance(s) are locked for THAT
Tiddler, but open for edit on others?
- Using Bob you can access another wiki via an iframe, at the bob
address because dragging and dropping between wikis do not cause problems
if the wiki is in another window/tab
Best wishes
Josiah
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TonyM
2018-07-19 09:09:14 UTC
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That's how I understand it Josiah,

But it is also in comparison to a file based wiki, because they are not tiddler based and the last wiki wins.

I am yet to rigorously test it, but it seems to work well. I sometimes have to leave the wiki with "unsaved changes" even although they are all saved.

Regards
Tony
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-19 09:21:44 UTC
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... I am yet to rigorously test it, but it seems to work well.
Agree. I haven't had any problems on working that way. One small issue is
about ...

I sometimes have to leave the wiki with "unsaved changes" even although
they are all saved.
.. exactly. Its saved actually, but the "talk between" the wikis on
multi-instance isn't perfect on the "state-of-play". But the actual
mechanism on save looks very robust. I have had no issues with it and lost
nothing.

Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-19 10:36:53 UTC
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_RELATIVE PATHS AND BOB "SCRIPTS"_

"Scripts" in Bob provide the main gateway to the OS ... Defined under: 'Bob
Settings > Manual Settings > "scripts"' in the MAIN wiki. These are usable
from any Wiki run by Bob... For example ...


In a wiki you launch a "script" via...

<$action-websocketmessage $type=runScript name=xxxxx opt1=yy opt2=zz .... />

The "runScript" action is executed always in the directory where the Bob
executable is (WBEI). This means that relative pathing to a program you are
invoking is always reliably relative to WBEI.

NOTE: Something you need to notice is that the program invoked may run
itself in WBEI. But it may NOT. It depends on the program. Some Windows
programs will only execute in their home directories, not in WBEI.

What is the significance? It means if you are using relative addressing, if
you pass parameters on "files to use" to the program the path to them needs
to vary according to whether they run in WBEI or from their home directory.

If this is unclear please ask for examples. Its an example of interacting
with the OS that can come into play when you start accessing the OS through
Bob.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-19 11:09:34 UTC
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_RELATIVE PATHS AND BOB's "buildHTMLWiki"_

Its simply worth noting that for ...

<$action-websocketmessage $type='buildHTMLWiki' outputFolder=<<sfTo>>
outputName=<<sfName>> excludeList=<<getSetting excludeList>> />

... that the "outputFolder" is created through an address "Relative to the
Wiki" being built, NOT relative to the executable that runs Bob.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-07-19 11:45:19 UTC
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_RE-ENTRANT EASY USAGE OF BOB WIKIS_

Lets say you have five TW created in Bob ... But you only work with them in
Firefox--even though your default browser is Chrome. Its easy to set up so
Chrome won't get in the way ...

- In FF you open all the Bob TW you want to use (manually).


- You set it (either via an add-on or just "Open last session on
startup") so that when FF starts it goes auto to all those addresses. If
you initiate Bob first, before the FF browser, its will work easily and
load them. Done. Absolutely no need to open them one by one from Bob.


- Once you can see it works add this to Bob settings ...


- "suppressBrowser":"true"

This will stop Bob from trying to open its child TW in the default browser.


Ask if this is unclear.


Do you have Bob tips? Now or latter. Welcome.


Josiah
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