Discussion:
[tw] [TW5] YoutubePlugin (tentative)
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-10 12:49:11 UTC
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Inspired by this discussion...

[TW5] Idea for a Hangouts TiddlyWiki
<https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!folder/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/5FugIFRgYLs>

I set out to streamline and extend on the codebits I could find to create...

http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com

Have a go at it and let me know what you think.

Best wishes, Tobias.
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Astrid Elocson
2015-01-10 13:48:50 UTC
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Hi Tobias,

That is utterly brilliant. My own contribution was pathetic in comparison :)

What you've done there also serves as a great practical example for
intermediate users of how to use some of the more advanced TiddlyWiki
techniques. I'm sure I will learn a lot from it.

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BJ
2015-01-10 14:53:33 UTC
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It's looking good!
Maybe we could have a mime-type, like "video/x-youtube" and use the
"canonical url" as well?

cheers
BJ
Post by Tobias Beer
Inspired by this discussion...
[TW5] Idea for a Hangouts TiddlyWiki
<https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!folder/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/5FugIFRgYLs>
I set out to streamline and extend on the codebits I could find to create...
http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com
Have a go at it and let me know what you think.
Best wishes, Tobias.
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-10 15:51:06 UTC
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Hi BJ,

Thanks ;-)
Post by BJ
Maybe we could have a mime-type, like "video/x-youtube" and use the
"canonical url" as well?
Maybe, but I do prefer to add actual contents to that video tiddler ...on
top of annotations,
which I currently am not granted with *_canonical_uri* being set ...why
not?!?

Best wishes, Tobias.
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Astrid Elocson
2015-01-10 16:16:27 UTC
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Incidentally, why does "_canonical_uri" start with an underscore when none
of the other core field names do?

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Tobias Beer
2015-01-10 16:20:48 UTC
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Post by Astrid Elocson
Incidentally, why does "_canonical_uri" start with an underscore when none
of the other core field names do?
What is the reason for not just having it called *uri* anyway?

Best wishes, Tobias.
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Jeremy Ruston
2015-01-10 16:38:40 UTC
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Post by Astrid Elocson
Incidentally, why does "_canonical_uri" start with an underscore when none
of the other core field names do?
The name "_canonical_uri" was established by TiddlyWeb, and adopted by TW5
for compatibility. I agree that it's unfortunate that it belongs to a
different naming style than we usually use.

Best wishes

Jeremy
Post by Astrid Elocson
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RichShumaker
2015-01-10 22:58:25 UTC
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As always Tobias WOW.

It may take me a day to two to digest it all.
And I like that a lot.

Just starting to read everything so I may have missed this.
The Tiddlers you defined have a start and stop point but the Tiddlers you
open don't show those start and stops.

I have said this before, the end goal would be to watch all the video
segments on a specific subject via playlist.
So all Tiddlers Tagged 'Awesome' would show up in a video list and
hopefully we could stitch them together somehow.
Not a playlist of videos but a playlist of video subsections, so you could
disect a video into smaller bite sized parts to watch on specific subjects.

Rich Shumaker
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RichShumaker
2015-01-10 23:18:53 UTC
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I get it now.
Not sure why it is doing this but I get what it is doing now.

The Tiddlers of just sections do indeed play from a start point to an end
point, the first time.
On the hangouts I built with Astrid and Jed's help, when it works(silly
javascript error), it shows brackets for the start to stop on the Tiddlers.

On your videos the start point on all videos is actually 00:00:00 and you
are "Jumping Playback" to specific point.
If you play a Tiddler once it starts at the correct spot and stops
correctly if you hit the Replay button it starts at 00:00:00.

Hope that makes sense and helps as well.

Rich Shumaker
Post by RichShumaker
As always Tobias WOW.
It may take me a day to two to digest it all.
And I like that a lot.
Just starting to read everything so I may have missed this.
The Tiddlers you defined have a start and stop point but the Tiddlers you
open don't show those start and stops.
I have said this before, the end goal would be to watch all the video
segments on a specific subject via playlist.
So all Tiddlers Tagged 'Awesome' would show up in a video list and
hopefully we could stitch them together somehow.
Not a playlist of videos but a playlist of video subsections, so you could
disect a video into smaller bite sized parts to watch on specific subjects.
Rich Shumaker
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Astrid Elocson
2015-01-10 23:34:57 UTC
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Hi Rich,
Post by RichShumaker
On your videos the start point on all videos is actually 00:00:00 and you
are "Jumping Playback" to specific point. If you play a Tiddler once it
starts at the correct spot and stops correctly if you hit the Replay button
it starts at 00:00:00.

Interestingly, I get that effect on Chrome, but not on Firefox. Hitting
Replay on Firefox plays the correct segment of the video again.

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Astrid Elocson
2015-01-10 23:44:25 UTC
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Hi Tobias,

I've now read through all your code at http://youtube.tiddyspot.com, and I
did indeed learn a lot. Thanks for publishing it!

The only thing I couldn't fathom was the line in
$:/plugins/tobibeer/youtube/list/annotations that says:

<$link to=<<annotation>>>

I couldn't find anything that either set "annotation" as a variable or
defined it as a macro.

I did notice that $:/plugins/tobibeer/youtube/macros/yt.js exports an extra
*parameter* called "annotation", which never seems to be used. Is that
somehow the answer?


A couple of other comments about
$:/plugins/tobibeer/youtube/list/annotations:

* The filter step [prefix[Draft of]] is usually expressed as
[has[draft.of]]. There could conceivably be a non-draft tiddler whose title
started with "Draft of".

* Is <$set name=video value=<<currentTiddler>>> redundant? Nothing seems to
use the "video" variable, and its value is already accessible (and indeed
accessed) as the "yt-video" variable.

Must stop now. My head is spinning :)

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Tobias Beer
2015-01-11 01:40:31 UTC
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Hi Astrid,
Post by Astrid Elocson
I've now read through all your code at http://youtube.tiddyspot.com, and
I did indeed learn a lot. Thanks for publishing it!
Thanks for taking the time to go through it all!
Post by Astrid Elocson
The only thing I couldn't fathom was the line in
<$link to=<<annotation>>>
A (potential) bug and a lesson learned.
It was a remnant from a former list variable by that name.
The link widget ignored it as it's value was undefined and
defaulted to <<currentTiddler>> which was the right thing to do anyway. ;-)

I did notice that $:/plugins/tobibeer/youtube/macros/yt.js exports an extra
Post by Astrid Elocson
*parameter* called "annotation", which never seems to be used. Is that
somehow the answer?
Nope. Removed. Can't remember what I intended it for.
Perhaps from a time when there wasn't a title param yet.


The filter step [prefix[Draft of]] is usually expressed as [has[draft.of]].
Post by Astrid Elocson
There could conceivably be a non-draft tiddler whose title started with
"Draft of".
Thank you, useful tip, fixed... and documented.

http://filters.tiddlyspot.com/#ignore%20draft%20tiddlers

Is <$set name=video value=<<currentTiddler>>> redundant? Nothing seems to
Post by Astrid Elocson
use the "video" variable, and its value is already accessible (and indeed
accessed) as the "yt-video" variable.
It is... another remnant. Thank you, much appreciated!

Best wishes, Tobias.
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RichShumaker
2015-01-11 00:43:50 UTC
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I just came on and read your thread Astrid.
It is what I was about to say FireFox good Chrome bad #heheh, oh and I
wanted to say to Tobias again, wow.

Rich Shumaker
Post by Astrid Elocson
Hi Rich,
Post by RichShumaker
On your videos the start point on all videos is actually 00:00:00 and
you are "Jumping Playback" to specific point. If you play a Tiddler once it
starts at the correct spot and stops correctly if you hit the Replay button
it starts at 00:00:00.
Interestingly, I get that effect on Chrome, but not on Firefox. Hitting
Replay on Firefox plays the correct segment of the video again.
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-11 01:20:22 UTC
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Hi Rich,
Post by RichShumaker
I have said this before, the end goal would be to watch all the video
segments on a specific subject via playlist.
So all Tiddlers Tagged 'Awesome' would show up in a video list and
hopefully we could stitch them together somehow.
Not a playlist of videos but a playlist of video subsections, so you could
disect a video into smaller bite sized parts to watch on specific subjects.
That is a great idea...

http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#annotation-list-for-tags

Let me think about this for a moment.

Best wishes, Tobias.
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Chris Dent
2015-01-11 15:07:54 UTC
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Post by Jeremy Ruston
Post by Astrid Elocson
Incidentally, why does "_canonical_uri" start with an underscore when
none of the other core field names do?
The name "_canonical_uri" was established by TiddlyWeb, and adopted by TW5
for compatibility. I agree that it's unfortunate that it belongs to a
different naming style than we usually use.
Just for historical reference the name chosen was up for discussion for a
long time (on tiddlyspace, in the tiddlyweb google group, on github, etc).
There's various links from here: http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/20121221

Here's a canonical_uri tiddler as JSON, for
reference: Loading Image....json

The reason for not using 'uri' is because that was already being used for
the uri of the tiddler itself. The reason for the leading _ is because in
TiddlyWeb there are core attributes on the tiddlers (bag, type, text etc)
and then there is another attribute called fields which contains a custom
dictionary of additional fields on the tiddlers. Canonical uri was made a
field (rather than core attribute) because it is optional (that is, not
critical to TiddlyWeb's definition of a tiddler) and the leading '_' was
used to indicate that it was system-oriented rather than user-oriented (a
convention borrowed from private variable indications in Python).

The existence of _canonical_uri was expressly for the purpose of allowing a
single tiddler to act as what amounts to a proxy for a resource that exists
elsewhere on the web. Thus, in the context of tiddlers you could refer to
that other resource by its TiddlerTitle while still using it from its
original place. A side effect was that you could keep tags and other
metadata about the remote resource in the tiddler that points to the remote
thing.

The feature is used quite a bit in Tank for handling images and other
content that can be dragged and dropped into a wiki. The actual binary
content is saved in S3 and a _canonical_uri tiddler created to point to it.
I mostly did it to save on disk space, but it also means that bags that
appear to contain binary tiddlers are not slowed down by the binary
tiddlers.

If the name is unsightly within TW5, why not change it, and just do a
translation in tiddlywebadaptor.js? It already has to do that to deal with
TW5's non-nested handling of attributes+fields.

I hope that bit of info is of some use for people who might be curious.
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RichShumaker
2015-01-12 00:02:22 UTC
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First
Post by Chris Dent
The feature is used quite a bit in Tank for handling images and other
content that can be dragged and dropped into a wiki. The actual binary
content is saved in S3 and a _canonical_uri tiddler created to point to it.
I mostly did it to save on disk space, but it also means that bags that
appear to contain binary tiddlers are not slowed down by the binary
tiddlers.
That is awesome Chris and I need to get my TiddlyWeb working now as that is
the single feature I have wanted the most. A way to save data locally and
just create a link to it.
Second
THANK YOU TOBIAS

I have been hacking up the YouTube plug in and WOW.
I know it will get better, I am just amazed at how good it is already.
I agree with Astrid as well that this is a great lesson on how to build TW5
Stuff.

So one question came up while I was hacking things up.
I created a 6 times winning video
because I could.
Here's the question, Can multiple video's appear in a single Tiddler using
your YouTube stuff?
I tried but couldn't figure it out and will try some more today as it was
fun to use and create.

This was not intended to be a 'thing' but I could do it so I did.
The end concept was to create a YouTube Sampler, again because I could and
no other real reason.

Since you can start a video and stop a video at specific points you can
create samples.
I thought of this as I saw a Ted Talk where they took Captain Kirk's
dialogue and cut it up and used it as samples to rebuild phrases and
things, pretty cool stuff.

Thanks again Tobias and Jed and Astrid and everyone in the community.

Rich Shumaker
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Alex Hough
2015-01-12 11:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Tobias,

It's an interesting development .... how many other tool are there for
annotating YouTube videos like this?

here's one : http://www.videonot.es/

but I can see new users adopting TW because of vid annotation, a special
edition TW Vid Notes combined with TW Scholar, and we have a powerful
collection of tools


best wishes

Alex
Post by RichShumaker
First
Post by Chris Dent
The feature is used quite a bit in Tank for handling images and other
content that can be dragged and dropped into a wiki. The actual binary
content is saved in S3 and a _canonical_uri tiddler created to point to it.
I mostly did it to save on disk space, but it also means that bags that
appear to contain binary tiddlers are not slowed down by the binary
tiddlers.
That is awesome Chris and I need to get my TiddlyWeb working now as that
is the single feature I have wanted the most. A way to save data locally
and just create a link to it.
Second
THANK YOU TOBIAS
I have been hacking up the YouTube plug in and WOW.
I know it will get better, I am just amazed at how good it is already.
I agree with Astrid as well that this is a great lesson on how to build
TW5 Stuff.
So one question came up while I was hacking things up.
I created a 6 times winning video
http://youtu.be/ubtH8rsJRC0 because I could.
Here's the question, Can multiple video's appear in a single Tiddler using
your YouTube stuff?
I tried but couldn't figure it out and will try some more today as it was
fun to use and create.
This was not intended to be a 'thing' but I could do it so I did.
The end concept was to create a YouTube Sampler, again because I could and
no other real reason.
Since you can start a video and stop a video at specific points you can
create samples.
I thought of this as I saw a Ted Talk where they took Captain Kirk's
dialogue and cut it up and used it as samples to rebuild phrases and
things, pretty cool stuff.
Thanks again Tobias and Jed and Astrid and everyone in the community.
Rich Shumaker
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-12 14:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Rich,
Post by RichShumaker
Here's the question, Can multiple video's appear in a single Tiddler using
your YouTube stuff?
Via transclusion.
Post by RichShumaker
Since you can start a video and stop a video at specific points you can
create samples.
I want to be able to autoplay, at least.
Start, stop only works once, not as looping.

Looping is currently possible for entire videos only
and the video needs to be listed in a playlist...

https://www.youtube.com/v/GRonxog5mbw?autoplay=1&loop=1&playlist=GRonxog5mbw

There's also this site, but it doesn't provide a way to embed things,
at which point their server may possibly go down thanks to the number of
people using it...

http://loopthetube.com#7_ZhCaz2Cic&start=39&end=47

Best wishes, Tobias.
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-12 15:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Rich,
Post by RichShumaker
Here's the question, Can multiple video's appear in a single Tiddler using
your YouTube stuff?
I tried but couldn't figure it out and will try some more today as it was
fun to use and create.
Just for the fun of it...

http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#EndlessLoopingWeirdness

Best wishes, Tobias.
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RichShumaker
2015-01-12 18:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Tobias that simply made me SMILE *:)* !!!

Got it, loops are only on full videos.
I was using triggers (somehow) to play the videos over and over when I
press the button.
So I was manually looping it.

The crazy idea in my head was MakeyMakey <http://makeymakey.com/> to
trigger YouTube inside TW and since I found mousetrap(Link 1
<http://craig.is/killing/mice>, Link 2 <http://welford.github.io/#Hello>, Link
3 <https://github.com/welford/twmousetrap>) last night that crazy idea
became less crazy.
Community Search is amazing and very helpful.

Build idea - Button inside TW for playing YouTube video that you assign to
the keyboard and then map to MakeyMakey.
Add a drum loop and you have the next big YouTube World Sensation, Autotune
for 2015 and I am R$ take that TPain.

Rich Shumaker
Post by Astrid Elocson
Hi Rich,
Post by RichShumaker
Here's the question, Can multiple video's appear in a single Tiddler
using your YouTube stuff?
I tried but couldn't figure it out and will try some more today as it was
fun to use and create.
Just for the fun of it...
http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#EndlessLoopingWeirdness
Best wishes, Tobias.
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Ed Dixon
2015-01-11 03:57:59 UTC
Permalink
WOW

Tobias great job! A lot of your own time and effort had to go into this and
I also really appreciate the fact that you acknowledged the works of some
of the others involved in all this. I can not thank you enough and am
really anxious to see this become a full plugin! LOVE IT!

Thanks,
Post by Tobias Beer
Inspired by this discussion...
[TW5] Idea for a Hangouts TiddlyWiki
<https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!folder/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/5FugIFRgYLs>
I set out to streamline and extend on the codebits I could find to create...
http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com
Have a go at it and let me know what you think.
Best wishes, Tobias.
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-11 12:36:58 UTC
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As a reminder, please test, but don't just use it yet right away, because...

experimental => do testnot yet packaged as a YoutubePlugin
<http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#YoutubePlugin>please don't use yet, may be
restructured a lot, because...will likely evolve to a more generic
PlayerPlugin <http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#PluginName>, MadiaPlugin
<http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#PluginName>, AnnotatePlugin
<http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#PluginName>, etc...not sure about the
PluginName <http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#PluginName>

Especially the last bits!

Best wishes, Tobias.
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Alberto Molina
2015-01-13 01:42:37 UTC
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Hi Tobias and all,

I have created a demo of YouTube plugin working and MagicTabs plugin
working together: youtabs.tiddlyspot.com

- It shows a tab with annotations at the bottom of every video tiddler.
- It lacks a template tiddler to show the list of annotations (easy to
add, but depends on your preferences).

The process of creating custom new magic tabs is explained in 5 easy steps.

Regards,

Alberto
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-13 09:06:41 UTC
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Nice one, Alberto,

This part of the documentation may be interesting
in terms of getting the list of annotations with timed links...

http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#Lists

Also, the *(tentative)* in the title of this thread truly means that I
every much intend to change the plugin title and location again as I really
don't want this to have a focus on youtube only but rather as a more
general plugin wrapper to annotate different kinds of media with extensions
like youtube to support embedding whichever media-type at a given start
position / for a given start-end-frame.

Best wishes, Tobias.
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RichShumaker
2015-01-14 07:09:08 UTC
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not sure about the PluginName <http://youtube.tiddlyspot.com/#PluginName>
If you are making it more generic it depends on what you are going to play.
So if you are able to play audio streams, audio podcasts, YouTube Videos,
Vimeo, other formats of stuff even 3d?
If it can do all that stuff then AnyPlayer or AllPlayer or maybe just
simply ThePlayerPlugin
I liked the new TiddlyMap name so not really sure of a good Player name in
the same vane.

Rich Shumaker
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Tobias Beer
2015-01-14 10:05:48 UTC
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Post by RichShumaker
I liked the new TiddlyMap name so not really sure of a good Player name in
the same vane.
First I was thinking *MediaPlugin* but now I'm pretty sure it will be
*CuePlugin*...
as it's main purpose is to cue in on a given point of a medium,
through annotations or otherwise just via embedding.

Best wishes, Tobias.
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rich shumaker
2015-01-15 19:06:05 UTC
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I like CuePlugin and I can see teachers, students, and anyone learning to
be interested in this TW solution.
I wonder if there are lists of YouTube videos that we could just get the
YouTube ID's.
So you have a Chemistry YouTube ID list with names would be helpful.

That way you have most of the work already accomplished.

I am using YouTube in my TW more and more these days.

Rich Shumaker
Post by RichShumaker
I liked the new TiddlyMap name so not really sure of a good Player name in
Post by RichShumaker
the same vane.
First I was thinking *MediaPlugin* but now I'm pretty sure it will be
*CuePlugin*...
as it's main purpose is to cue in on a given point of a medium,
through annotations or otherwise just via embedding.
Best wishes, Tobias.
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Ed Dixon
2015-01-16 09:22:28 UTC
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Rich I work with the Foundation for Learning Equality and our primary
product KA-Lite (an open source program) may do exactly this to create an
index for downloading of the Khan Academy videos. The program is python
based so the programming may require some translation to javascript. I am
not sure exactly how they get the YouTube ID's but will try and find out
and share here. I find it amazing that so many of us seem to all share the
same vision of what the TiddlyWiki Platform has to offer as an educational
tool. Thanks to all and congrats to all of you in creating this TW5 plugin
with the potential to substantially help improve education!

All that said and because it is related, I am recruiting to create a cohort
group to go through an online training program provided for free by
Advanced Distributed Learning in developing educational solutions using the
xAPI (also known as TinCan). I don't want to hijack this important thread
for that cause but if any here are interested please see that thread (soon
to be created) if you would be interested in joining me on this endeavor. I
hope to use TW5 and other excellent plugins such as this as a base for the
required project our team is expected to create as we progress in that
program. I am also recruiting from other educational projects I am
associated with so mixing, mingling, and plenty of fun are pretty much
guaranteed but I need a few good TW5'rs with me so please do check it out!

Thanks,
Post by rich shumaker
I like CuePlugin and I can see teachers, students, and anyone learning to
be interested in this TW solution.
I wonder if there are lists of YouTube videos that we could just get the
YouTube ID's.
So you have a Chemistry YouTube ID list with names would be helpful.
That way you have most of the work already accomplished.
I am using YouTube in my TW more and more these days.
Rich Shumaker
Post by RichShumaker
I liked the new TiddlyMap name so not really sure of a good Player name
in the same vane.
First I was thinking *MediaPlugin* but now I'm pretty sure it will be
*CuePlugin*...
as it's main purpose is to cue in on a given point of a medium,
through annotations or otherwise just via embedding.
Best wishes, Tobias.
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