[tw] Navigating to a specific headline or slice in TW5

[Jan]

Hello,
is it possible in TW5 to navigate to a specific headline or to show a
secific slice, like it was in TWC where you could navigate to slices
using Tiddler##Slice.

regards
Jan

[Mat]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Jan]

Thanks Mat,
that's a pitty, these slices were so comfortable in TWC.
Nice to have your workarround at least. Now we would need a shorthand
for this.
So I guess transclusions of slices are not possible either....

best wishes Jan.

Post by Mat
See ongoing discussion
<https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1783>on github.
Short answer is: No, not possible.
I made a hack <http://intlinks.tiddlyspot.com/> that suffers some
substantial drawbacks but might be usable in limited cases.
<:-)
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['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I think it's a shame too. It's not just an oversight -- it's part of a
whole design philosophy:

http://tiddlywiki.com/#Philosophy%20of%20Tiddlers

Depending on your use case, the data dictionary can work something like the
slices. You set the content type of a tiddler to data dictionary. Then
entries go in it like:

tom: A cartoon catjerry: A cartoon mouseBen: Works with other Jerry
And you can access these definitions from another tiddler like this:

{{sliceme##tom}}


HTH
Mark

Post by Jan
Thanks Mat,
that's a pitty, these slices were so comfortable in TWC.
Nice to have your workarround at least. Now we would need a shorthand for
this.
So I guess transclusions of slices are not possible either....
best wishes Jan.
See ongoing discussion
<https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1783>on github.
Short answer is: No, not possible.
I made a hack <http://intlinks.tiddlyspot.com/> that suffers some
substantial drawbacks but might be usable in limited cases.
<:-)
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[Jan]

Hi Mark,
What happens to TWClassic slices when migrating old TWs?
My usecase back in TWC was recycling TiddlerContent, lists, buttons,
sliders. The results were more beautifull because they were more
compact. I loved to transclude slices...
Arghhh!
I see this will be an awfull heap of work...

Post by 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
I think it's a shame too. It's not just an oversight -- it's part of a
http://tiddlywiki.com/#Philosophy%20of%20Tiddlers
Depending on your use case, the data dictionary can work something
like the slices. You set the content type of a tiddler to data
|
tom:A cartoon cat
jerry:A cartoon mouse
Ben:Works with other Jerry|
{{sliceme##tom}}
HTH
Mark
Thanks Mat,
that's a pitty, these slices were so comfortable in TWC.
Nice to have your workarround at least. Now we would need a
shorthand for this.
So I guess transclusions of slices are not possible either....
best wishes Jan.

Post by Mat
See ongoing discussion
<https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1783>on github.
Short answer is: No, not possible.
I made a hack <http://intlinks.tiddlyspot.com/> that suffers some
substantial drawbacks but might be usable in limited cases.
<:-)
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['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I went with the flow, with an awful lot of work still in its old format.

TW5 has fields which can be transcluded. You can make as many fields as you
want in a tiddler AFAIK. Perhaps in some cases that can could be reworked
similar to your old usage(s).

Mark

Post by Jan
Hi Mark,
What happens to TWClassic slices when migrating old TWs?
My usecase back in TWC was recycling TiddlerContent, lists, buttons,
sliders. The results were more beautifull because they were more compact. I
loved to transclude slices...
Arghhh!
I see this will be an awfull heap of work...
I think it's a shame too. It's not just an oversight -- it's part of a
http://tiddlywiki.com/#Philosophy%20of%20Tiddlers
Depending on your use case, the data dictionary can work something like
the slices. You set the content type of a tiddler to data dictionary. Then
tom: A cartoon catjerry: A cartoon mouseBen: Works with other Jerry
{{sliceme##tom}}
HTH
Mark

Post by Jan
Thanks Mat,
that's a pitty, these slices were so comfortable in TWC.
Nice to have your workarround at least. Now we would need a shorthand for
this.
So I guess transclusions of slices are not possible either....
best wishes Jan.
See ongoing discussion
<https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1783>on github.
Short answer is: No, not possible.
I made a hack <http://intlinks.tiddlyspot.com/> that suffers some
substantial drawbacks but might be usable in limited cases.
<:-)
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[Jan]

Hej Mat.
Discussing the lack the possibility to transclude slices, i asked myself
wether
the Code in your cherrypicker could be an answer to this Problem.
Will it possible to use Marks invisible in the ViewMode?
Could you create a ViewTemplate that renders by tiddler without changing
the Layout. Something like <<slice "keyword" [[Tiddler]]>> .
Would be great to rediscover this great feature...

Jan

Post by Mat
See ongoing discussion
<https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1783>on github.
Short answer is: No, not possible.
I made a hack <http://intlinks.tiddlyspot.com/> that suffers some
substantial drawbacks but might be usable in limited cases.
<:-)
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[Mat]

Post by Jan
Hej Mat.
Discussing the lack the possibility to transclude slices, i asked myself
wether
the Code in your cherrypicker could be an answer to this Problem.
Will it possible to use Marks invisible in the ViewMode?

Jan, I just did some quick tests in CherryPicker
<http://cherrypicker.tiddlyspot.com/> and it seems it works using <mark>,
i.e surround the marks of choice with angle brackets and it doesn't show up
in viewmode. Be careful to not use e.g html markup (like <table> or <b>
etc).

Post by Jan
Could you create a ViewTemplate that renders by tiddler without changing
the Layout. Something like <<slice "keyword" [[Tiddler]]>> .
Would be great to rediscover this great feature...

Ha, limiting the cherrypicker to pick from a specific tiddler... and it's
in effect slicing! That's a very interesting idea that I had not thought
of! Could you elaborate a bit what you mean with "keyword" here? Are you
saying like a kind of anchor and then transclude everything from that point
until... what actually?

Your suggestion gives me another idea though; one could cherrypick all
headlines into a kind of outliner. Then, clicking on a headline it's
content is transcluded too.

I should be clear though: My specific CherryPicker implementation is
probably not the most suitable for these things. I think we'd really need a
js widget for this so that cherries and slices could be manipulated in a
more controlled way

Will do some thinking but it'll probably take some time. I think
CherryPicker is a super cool (and important) concept though so I do intend
to develop it further.

<:-)

[Jan]

Hej Mat.
With keyword I meant the indicators/labels to mark the cherrys like
<mark> or @@bob.
Could one use something like this <#1>slicecontent<#1> or is it
reserved? It would be fine if allso the next number worked to terminate
a slide <#1>slicecontent<#2>.
I would like to have a real shorthand use like <slice [Tiddler]|1> to
display. It would be nice to have the normal style by default and to use
templates and multiple tidler like this <slice [TiddlerA][TiddlerB]|1
cherry> to get the lovely box with clickable cherries you designed which
draws content from two tiddlers...
Again... Cherrypicker has the potential of a big enhancement.

Great thankyou
Jan ß-)


One use of the cherrypicker would be collecting the footnotes of a story.

Post by Jan
Hej Mat.
Discussing the lack the possibility to transclude slices, i asked
myself wether
the Code in your cherrypicker could be an answer to this Problem.
Will it possible to use Marks invisible in the ViewMode?
Jan, I just did some quick tests in CherryPicker
<http://cherrypicker.tiddlyspot.com/> and it seems it works using
<mark>, i.e surround the marks of choice with angle brackets and it
doesn't show up in viewmode. Be careful to not use e.g html markup
(like <table> or <b> etc).
Could you create a ViewTemplate that renders by tiddler without
changing the Layout. Something like <<slice "keyword" [[Tiddler]]>> .
Would be great to rediscover this great feature...
Ha, limiting the cherrypicker to pick from a specific tiddler... and
it's in effect slicing! That's a very interesting idea that I had not
thought of! Could you elaborate a bit what you mean with "keyword"
here? Are you saying like a kind of anchor and then transclude
everything from that point until... what actually?
Your suggestion gives me another idea though; one could cherrypick all
headlines into a kind of outliner. Then, clicking on a headline it's
content is transcluded too.
I should be clear though: My specific CherryPicker implementation is
probably not the most suitable for these things. I think we'd really
need a js widget for this so that cherries and slices could be
manipulated in a more controlled way
Will do some thinking but it'll probably take some time. I think
CherryPicker is a super cool (and important) concept though so I do
intend to develop it further.
<:-)
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[David Gifford]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Jed Carty]

I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage any
exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way of
doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers or
fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.

Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion so
you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able to
both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we would
need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only wikitext
and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does the same
action as clicking on a normal link.

[Jeremy Ruston]

It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that one can presently do to an entire tiddler needs to be possible with a slice: transclusion, linking, searching, etc.

That means that the system has to deal with two levels of granularity: slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.

In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.

That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be a tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of content in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to avoid repeatedly scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead, we’d want to store the individual slices separately so that we can efficiently address them as needed.

You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming* “tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences of slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.

That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use transclusion, or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.

We’ve still got the problem of dealing with long passages of text: that’s where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that these long texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined in flexible ways.

So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective it’s cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single fundamental entity, and to approach the original problem from the other end: by splitting and recombining.

Best wishes

Jeremy

I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way of doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers or fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion so you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able to both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we would need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only wikitext and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does the same action as clicking on a normal link.
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[Xavier Cazin]

Hi Jeremy,

Does this slide concept allow compatibility with html anchors? So that
importing an HTML fragment containing footnotes would create of a "footnote
slice", as well as the linking mecanism between the note and the call point?

Cheers,
Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin

Post by Jeremy Ruston
It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of text
into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or slices/chunks).
In practice, I think that means that anything that one can presently do to
an entire tiddler needs to be possible with a slice: transclusion, linking,
searching, etc.
slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate
tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler would
be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be a
tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of content
in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to avoid repeatedly
scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead, we’d want to store the
individual slices separately so that we can efficiently address them as
needed.
You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming*
“tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences of
slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.
That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several
tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use transclusion,
or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.
We’ve still got the problem of dealing with long passages of text: that’s
where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that these long
texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined in flexible ways.
So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback
from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective it’s
cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single fundamental entity,
and to approach the original problem from the other end: by splitting and
recombining.
Best wishes
Jeremy
I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage
any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way
of doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers
or fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion so
you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able to
both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we would
need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only wikitext
and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does the same
action as clicking on a normal link.
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[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Xavier

Does this slide concept allow compatibility with html anchors? So that importing an HTML fragment containing footnotes would create of a "footnote slice", as well as the linking mecanism between the note and the call point?

If you’re asking about the text-slicer plugin, then the answer is “no”, it doesn’t understand HTML anchors at present. But it could, of course, with some updating. The trouble is that what you are describing is a particular convention for how anchors/links might be used in a particular HTML document, and wouldn’t in general apply to every document. That level of customisation isn’t implemented at present.

Best wishes

Jeremy

Cheers,
Xavier.
-- Xavier Cazin
It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that one can presently do to an entire tiddler needs to be possible with a slice: transclusion, linking, searching, etc.
That means that the system has to deal with two levels of granularity: slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be a tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of content in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to avoid repeatedly scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead, we’d want to store the individual slices separately so that we can efficiently address them as needed.
You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming* “tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences of slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.
That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use transclusion, or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.
We’ve still got the problem of dealing with long passages of text: that’s where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that these long texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined in flexible ways.
So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective it’s cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single fundamental entity, and to approach the original problem from the other end: by splitting and recombining.
Best wishes
Jeremy

I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way of doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers or fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion so you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able to both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we would need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only wikitext and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does the same action as clicking on a normal link.
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[Jan]

Hi Jeremy
The concept of an atomic datastructure sounds logic.
Yet two my mind there is two missing features:

-When you discover that the content you wish to change was transcluded,
it takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in most cases I have to
find and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?

-It would be important to have better Security mechanisms against
destroying links. Especially renaming tiddlers can have dangerous
effects. It would be nice if users were shown a Modal informing about
Links Lists and Transclusions for which the Tiddker has importance..

Regards Jan

In TWClassic when changing the Name of a Tag-Tiddler i was asked wheter
I wished to change the tags to.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Jeremy Ruston <***@gmail.com
<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:

It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages
of text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or
slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that
one can presently do to an entire tiddler needs to be possible with
a slice: transclusion, linking, searching, etc.

That means that the system has to deal with two levels of
granularity: slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that
we manipulate tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.

In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler
would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.

That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to
be a tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit
of content in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want
to avoid repeatedly scanning tiddlers to extract the slices;
instead, we’d want to store the individual slices separately so that
we can efficiently address them as needed.

You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming*
“tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences
of slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.

That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several
tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use
transclusion, or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.

We’ve still got the problem of dealing with long passages of text:
that’s where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that
these long texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined
in flexible ways.

So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring
feedback from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering
perspective it’s cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a
single fundamental entity, and to approach the original problem from
the other end: by splitting and recombining.

Best wishes

Jeremy

Post by Jed Carty
I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to
discourage any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki
there is a TW5 way of doing what you are talking about, which is
to use either more tiddlers or fields which you then place
wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the
transclusion so you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler.
If you want to be able to both open a tiddler and navigate to some
spot in that tiddler than we would need a more complex macro but
it may be able to be done using only wikitext and simple html. Or
we may need to make an action widget that does the same action as
clicking on a normal link.
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Post by Jed Carty

Post by Jan
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[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Jan

Yet two my mind there is two missing features:
I'd acknowledge the impact of the issues you mention, but fixing them is
1,000 times easier than introducing full support for slicing.

-When you discover that the content you wish to change was transcluded, it
takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in most cases I have to find
and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?

My favoured approach to fix this is to introduce a mode that makes
transclusions visible, so that one can directly click on a link to open the
target tiddler.

-It would be important to have better Security mechanisms against
destroying links. Especially renaming tiddlers can have dangerous effects.
It would be nice if users were shown a Modal informing about Links Lists
and Transclusions for which the Tiddker has importance..

As discussed elsewhere, I'd favour support for automatically replacing
references to a tiddler when it is renamed.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Regards Jan
In TWClassic when changing the Name of a Tag-Tiddler i was asked wheter I
wished to change the tags to.

Post by Jeremy Ruston
It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of
text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or
slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that one can
transclusion, linking, searching, etc.
slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate
tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler
would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be a
tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of content
in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to avoid repeatedly
scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead, we’d want to store the
individual slices separately so that we can efficiently address them as
needed.
You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming*
“tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences of
slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.
That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several
tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use transclusion,
or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.
We’ve still got the problem of dealing with long passages of text: that’s
where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that these long
texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined in flexible ways.
So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback
from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective it’s
cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single fundamental entity,
and to approach the original problem from the other end: by splitting and
recombining.
Best wishes
Jeremy
I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage
any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way
of doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers
or fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion so
you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able to
both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we would
need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only wikitext
and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does the same
action as clicking on a normal link.
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mailto:***@gmail.com

['c pa' via TiddlyWiki]

Folks,

Whenever I feel the need to include slices in my tiddlers, I implement each
slice using a combination of the following:

1. a field and an <$edit-text tag="textarea" $field="slicename" /> widget.
2. the same field and an <$transclude mode="block" $field="slicename" />
widget.
3. a tag (I use edit) and a <$list filter="[all[current]tag[edit]]"
emptymessage=""" -- put view widget here --- """> --put edit widget here --
</$list> widget to switch the display between edit and view of the field

Benefits
1. Allows me to stay with the tiddlywiki core path
2. Imposes standard slice names
3. Allows me to look up and manipulate all slice names

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Can you give an example of #3. I've never had luck calling a widget from
inside a widget and I would like to know how it's done.

All of that, just to call a slice, which could have been made in a second
in TWC. Am I the only one who thinks this is incredibly daunting,
especially for new-comers?

Mark

Post by 'c pa' via TiddlyWiki
Folks,
Whenever I feel the need to include slices in my tiddlers, I implement
1. a field and an <$edit-text tag="textarea" $field="slicename" />
widget.
2. the same field and an <$transclude mode="block" $field="slicename" />
widget.
3. a tag (I use edit) and a <$list filter="[all[current]tag[edit]]"
emptymessage=""" -- put view widget here --- """> --put edit widget here --
</$list> widget to switch the display between edit and view of the field
Benefits
1. Allows me to stay with the tiddlywiki core path
2. Imposes standard slice names
3. Allows me to look up and manipulate all slice names

['c pa' via TiddlyWiki]

Post by 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Can you give an example of #3. I've never had luck calling a widget from

inside a widget and I would like to know how it's done

Oh right. I do all my editing from dashboards because all my tiddlers are
structured. The concept is as follows:

Analysis
============

# Decide on a structure for your tiddlers
#* Example "Book" would have the following fields
#** Title
#** Authors
#** Publisher
#** My random ramblings
#** My Review
#** Plot synopsis
#** ISBN Number

Discussion
=============

* My random ramblings is a good candidate for the text field
* My Review, and Plot synopsis are good candidates for slices
* The title of the book should be put in the caption field because two
books can have the same title
* ISBN is unique for books so put that in the title filed (The name of the
tiddler - must be unique)
* Authors can be multiple so this would be a list of authors populated from
tiddlers tagged "author"
** This requires a macro to populate it.
** You can use crazyListHere from cpashow.tiddlyspot.com
** As you might suspect from the name, my macro currently does all sorts of
stuff in addition to populating a list
* Publisher is a text name populated using a select from tiddlers tagged
"publisher"

Code a template
=========================

Create a tiddler to act as the "template" for books

title: "book" -- named the same as the tag used to define books
text:"""
ISBN: {{!!title}}
Edit ISBN: <$edit field="title" />
<br/>
Authors: <<crazyListHere "authors" "author">>
<br/>
Publisher: <$select field="publisher"><option value=""> -- </option><$list
filter="[tag[publisher]]"><option value=<<currentTiddler>> >
<<currentTiddler>> </option></$list></$select>
<br/>
My random ramblings: <$edit field="text" />
<br/>
My Review: <$edit-text tag="textarea" field="review" />
<br/>
Plot synopsis: <$edit-text tag="textarea" field="synopsis" />
"""

Code a dashboard
================================
title: "Book Dashboard"
text: """
Add a book: <$edit-text tag="input" tiddler="$:/temp/newbook" />
<$button>
Add book
<$action-setfield $field="currentbook" $value={{$:/temp/newbook}} />
<$action-setfield $tiddler={{$:/temp/newbook}} $field="tags"
$value="book" />
<$action-setfield $tiddler="$:/temp/newbook" $field="text" $value="" />
</$button>
Select a book to edit:
<$select field="currentbook">
<option value=""> -- </option>
<$list filter="[tag[book]]" variable="Current_Book" emptyMessage="""
<option value=""> There are no books available </option>
""">
<option value=<<Current_Book>> >
<<Current_Book>>
</option>
</$list>
</$select>
<$tiddler tiddler={{!!currentbook}} >
<$transclude tiddler="book" />
</$tiddler>
"""

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Post by 'c pa' via TiddlyWiki
Oh right. I do all my editing from dashboards because all my tiddlers are
Analysis
============
# Decide on a structure for your tiddlers
#* Example "Book" would have the following fields
#** Title
#** Authors
#** Publisher
#** My random ramblings
#** My Review
#** Plot synopsis
#** ISBN Number
Discussion
=============
* My random ramblings is a good candidate for the text field
* My Review, and Plot synopsis are good candidates for slices
* The title of the book should be put in the caption field because two
books can have the same title
* ISBN is unique for books so put that in the title filed (The name of the
tiddler - must be unique)
* Authors can be multiple so this would be a list of authors populated
from tiddlers tagged "author"
** This requires a macro to populate it.
** You can use crazyListHere from cpashow.tiddlyspot.com
** As you might suspect from the name, my macro currently does all sorts
of stuff in addition to populating a list
* Publisher is a text name populated using a select from tiddlers tagged
"publisher"
Code a template
=========================

I was thinking about something very similar. We have all that we need
already on tiddlywiki. The rest is just a matter of how do you present the
information. Tiddlers have fields, so you can have as many fields as
sections you need. Then, the only thing you need is a view template to
transclude all the "_section/name" fields and a edit template to edit them
comfortable.

Let me say *c pa* that I find your implementation brilliant. Thank you for
sharing.

[Matthew Lauber]

As an FYI, I've actually done a lot of work with fields, and discovered
that if you put a newline in a field on a tiddler, and export that tiddler
to a ".tid" fle, it breaks the format of the ".tid" file. This is an issue
if you ever intend to use the nodejs server, as it stores the files, behind
the scenes, in ".tid" format.

Matt

Post by Danielo Rodríguez

Post by 'c pa' via TiddlyWiki
Oh right. I do all my editing from dashboards because all my tiddlers are
Analysis
============
# Decide on a structure for your tiddlers
#* Example "Book" would have the following fields
#** Title
#** Authors
#** Publisher
#** My random ramblings
#** My Review
#** Plot synopsis
#** ISBN Number
Discussion
=============
* My random ramblings is a good candidate for the text field
* My Review, and Plot synopsis are good candidates for slices
* The title of the book should be put in the caption field because two
books can have the same title
* ISBN is unique for books so put that in the title filed (The name of
the tiddler - must be unique)
* Authors can be multiple so this would be a list of authors populated
from tiddlers tagged "author"
** This requires a macro to populate it.
** You can use crazyListHere from cpashow.tiddlyspot.com
** As you might suspect from the name, my macro currently does all sorts
of stuff in addition to populating a list
* Publisher is a text name populated using a select from tiddlers tagged
"publisher"
Code a template
=========================

I was thinking about something very similar. We have all that we need
already on tiddlywiki. The rest is just a matter of how do you present the
information. Tiddlers have fields, so you can have as many fields as
sections you need. Then, the only thing you need is a view template to
transclude all the "_section/name" fields and a edit template to edit them
comfortable.
Let me say *c pa* that I find your implementation brilliant. Thank you
for sharing.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

That is definetively a bug. Is it reported?

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Matt,

Post by Matthew Lauber
As an FYI, I've actually done a lot of work with fields, and discovered
that if you put a newline in a field on a tiddler, and export that tiddler
to a ".tid" fle, it breaks the format of the ".tid" file. This is an issue
if you ever intend to use the nodejs server, as it stores the files, behind
the scenes, in ".tid" format.

While the solution recently suggested by Jeremy is not implemented yet,
there's an issue for that here:

*#1947 tiddler format for multiline fields (esp. node.js)*
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1947

Best wishes,

Tobias.

[Matthew Lauber]

Sweet. Just assumed this was a quirk of the tiddler format and was set in
stone. Good to know there is a fix that's being considered. It's actually
one of the issues I ran into with TiddlyServer. One of the people testing
had a newline at the end of their author name, so every tiddler they saved
was invalidly formatted. Took me a while to figure that one out.

Matt

Post by Tobias Beer
Hi Matt,

Post by Matthew Lauber
As an FYI, I've actually done a lot of work with fields, and discovered
that if you put a newline in a field on a tiddler, and export that tiddler
to a ".tid" fle, it breaks the format of the ".tid" file. This is an issue
if you ever intend to use the nodejs server, as it stores the files, behind
the scenes, in ".tid" format.

While the solution recently suggested by Jeremy is not implemented yet,
*#1947 tiddler format for multiline fields (esp. node.js)*
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1947
Best wishes,
Tobias.

[Dmitry Sokolov]

Regarding renaming tiddlers, it is not recommended on LikeInMind while
technically possible.

In order to avoid dead links and lost connections, tiddlers are federated
under a desired name. The content of the "old" tiddler is replaced with the
link onto the "fresh" one. :)
Replacement of the obsolete links is done manually, when realised/needed.
Ideally, a "garbage collector" would be great to have.

Just my 2 cents,
Dmitry

Post by Jeremy Ruston
Hi Jan
I'd acknowledge the impact of the issues you mention, but fixing them is
1,000 times easier than introducing full support for slicing.

Post by Jan
-When you discover that the content you wish to change was transcluded,
it takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in most cases I have to find
and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?

My favoured approach to fix this is to introduce a mode that makes
transclusions visible, so that one can directly click on a link to open the
target tiddler.

Post by Jan
-It would be important to have better Security mechanisms against
destroying links. Especially renaming tiddlers can have dangerous effects.
It would be nice if users were shown a Modal informing about Links Lists
and Transclusions for which the Tiddker has importance..

As discussed elsewhere, I'd favour support for automatically replacing
references to a tiddler when it is renamed.
Best wishes
Jeremy.

Post by Jan
Regards Jan
In TWClassic when changing the Name of a Tag-Tiddler i was asked wheter I
wished to change the tags to.

Post by Jeremy Ruston
It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of
text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or
slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that one can
transclusion, linking, searching, etc.
slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate
tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler
would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be a
tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of content
in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to avoid repeatedly
scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead, we’d want to store the
individual slices separately so that we can efficiently address them as
needed.
You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming*
“tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences of
slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.
That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several
tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use transclusion,
or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.
that’s where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that these
long texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined in flexible
ways.
So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback
from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective it’s
cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single fundamental entity,
and to approach the original problem from the other end: by splitting and
recombining.
Best wishes
Jeremy
I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage
any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way
of doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers
or fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion
so you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able
to both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we
would need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only
wikitext and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does
the same action as clicking on a normal link.
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[Dmitry Sokolov]

In LikeInMind practice, transclusion is a very rare case. Transcluded
tiddlers may change with time in the context of the hosting topic / main
page. Those changes may conflict with the content of the topic / page they
are transcluded to. Federation is highly recommended instead.

Both, transcluded and federated tiddlers must have back links to the source
pages.
To avoid confusion, transcluded tiddlers are framed. Federated tiddlers
have no formatting differences with the rest of the page they are pasted to.

I hope you find it helpful.
Cheers,
Dmitry

Post by Xavier Cazin
Hi Jeremy
The concept of an atomic datastructure sounds logic.
-When you discover that the content you wish to change was transcluded, it
takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in most cases I have to find
and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?
-It would be important to have better Security mechanisms against
destroying links. Especially renaming tiddlers can have dangerous effects.
It would be nice if users were shown a Modal informing about Links Lists
and Transclusions for which the Tiddker has importance..
Regards Jan
In TWClassic when changing the Name of a Tag-Tiddler i was asked wheter I
wished to change the tags to.

Post by Jeremy Ruston
It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of
text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or
slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that one can
transclusion, linking, searching, etc.
slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate
tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler
would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be a
tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of content
in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to avoid repeatedly
scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead, we’d want to store the
individual slices separately so that we can efficiently address them as
needed.
You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming*
“tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences of
slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.
That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several
tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use transclusion,
or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.
We’ve still got the problem of dealing with long passages of text: that’s
where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that these long
texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined in flexible ways.
So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback
from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective it’s
cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single fundamental entity,
and to approach the original problem from the other end: by splitting and
recombining.
Best wishes
Jeremy
I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to discourage
any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki there is a TW5 way
of doing what you are talking about, which is to use either more tiddlers
or fields which you then place wherever you want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the transclusion so
you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If you want to be able to
both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot in that tiddler than we would
need a more complex macro but it may be able to be done using only wikitext
and simple html. Or we may need to make an action widget that does the same
action as clicking on a normal link.
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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan

The extract macro <http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro> offers a

-When you discover that the content you wish to change was transcluded, it
takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in most cases I have to find
and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?

As you would expect, it can find all {{transclusions}} in curly style – and
with the new version (0.9.2) you can output them as a list of links. I made
a demo here: http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Icon%20Test where it lists all
the images used.

I think such a list could be appended as a tab to the tiddler info panel 

or maybe you could make a conditional view template and append it to the
edit view. Of course you miss <transclude 
/>.

Good luck and good night!
Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
I think a box below the Title in the editTemplate would be best for this
purpose...and it would be good to show also in which tiddlers this
tiddler is transcluded, in order to avoid breaking it's text up
accidentally.

My current idea is also to use the extract-macro the other way
round...in order to build a sort of replacemanet for slices. Mark a
textpart ant then insert it somewhere else by means of the the macro.
It would be an idea to use the same mark-up for those slices as for
slides. Somethin like <sli1> text1 </sli> <sli2> text2 </sli>
To find them it would be nice to have a macro that would look like
<<slice "Tiddlername" 1>>.
Do you think that would work?

Yours Jan.

Post by Jeremy Ruston
Hi Jan
The extract macro <http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro>
-When you discover that the content you wish to change was
transcluded, it takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in
most cases I have to find and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?
As you would expect, it can find all {{transclusions}} in curly style
– and with the new version (0.9.2) you can output them as a list of
links. I made a demo here: http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Icon%20Test
where it lists all the images used.
I think such a list could be appended as a tab to the tiddler info
panel 
 or maybe you could make a conditional view template and append
it to the edit view. Of course you miss <transclude 
/>.
Good luck and good night!
Thomas
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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan

Easy things first. Good idea ;–)

My current idea is also to use the extract-macro the other way round...in

order to build a sort of replacemanet for slices. Mark a textpart ant then
insert it somewhere else by means of the the macro.

This is exactly what extact was made for.

It would be an idea to use the same mark-up for those slices as for
slides. Somethin like <sli1> text1 </sli> <sli2> text2 </sli>
To find them it would be nice to have a macro that would look like <<slice
"Tiddlername" 1>>.

Ah – a simplified meta-macro (I just invented that word) like our ref
macro. Of course this works. I made a demo on
http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html, see Chapter 2 Paragraph 1.1.

Code: http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html#%24%3A%2F_telmiger%2Fslice

\define slice(tiddler,nr,mode:"block")
<$macrocall $name="extract" tiddler="""$tiddler$""" start="<sli$nr$>" end=
"</sli$nr$>" mode="$mode$" class="slice"/>
\end

I opted to add the mode parameter so you can change to inline mode if you
like.

And I close the tag using the number <sli1>Your slice</sli*1*>. I am not
sure yet that this is the final solution, maybe there is a standard HTML
tag we could use and a custom param like <section slice="1">Slice
content</section>.

By the way, I think I smashed the bug that was preventing you from
updating. I guess you have to add class="summary" (or class:"summary") to
your existing macro calls.

I hope, this works for you. All the best!
Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas
That is great you just reinvented slices for TW5...and the best is: For
one slice it even works without setting a number!
I would like it to set it to standart "inline", because block is easily
done with return or <br>.

Thanks so much!
Bye Jan

I'll have to be off for a week to fininsh some professional duties

Post by Jeremy Ruston
Hi Jan
Easy things first. Good idea ;–)
My current idea is also to use the extract-macro the other way
round...in order to build a sort of replacemanet for slices. Mark
a textpart ant then insert it somewhere else by means of the the
macro.
This is exactly what extact was made for.
It would be an idea to use the same mark-up for those slices as
for slides. Somethin like <sli1> text1 </sli> <sli2> text2 </sli>
To find them it would be nice to have a macro that would look like
<<slice "Tiddlername" 1>>.
Ah – a simplified meta-macro (I just invented that word) like our ref
macro. Of course this works. I made a demo on
http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html, see Chapter 2 Paragraph 1.1.
Code: http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html#%24%3A%2F_telmiger%2Fslice
|
\define slice(tiddler,nr,mode:"block")
<$macrocall
$name="extract"tiddler="""$tiddler$"""start="<sli$nr$>"end="</sli$nr$>"mode="$mode$"class="slice"/>
\end
|
I opted to add the mode parameter so you can change to inline mode if
you like.
And I close the tag using the number <sli1>Your slice</sli*1*>. I am
not sure yet that this is the final solution, maybe there is a
standard HTML tag we could use and a custom param like <section
slice="1">Slice content</section>.
By the way, I think I smashed the bug that was preventing you from
updating. I guess you have to add class="summary" (or class:"summary")
to your existing macro calls.
I hope, this works for you. All the best!
Thomas
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[Jan]

Hi Thomas, thanks a lot for this.
I would prefer an Infobox in the Edit-Mode right below the TiddlerTitle.
It would be best to include a warning wether the Tiddler is transcluded
from somewhere in order to avoid accidental confusions.

...but I also have thought of using your Plugin the other way round to
produce a slice-replacement.
A function extracting some marked piece of a specific Tiddler. Something
like <slice>Text to extract<end>.
This would also have the advantage that it would be immediately visible
that the slice is used elsewhere.

Yours Jan

Post by Jeremy Ruston
Hi Jan
The extract macro <http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro>
-When you discover that the content you wish to change was
transcluded, it takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in
most cases I have to find and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?
As you would expect, it can find all {{transclusions}} in curly style
– and with the new version (0.9.2) you can output them as a list of
links. I made a demo here: http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Icon%20Test
where it lists all the images used.
I think such a list could be appended as a tab to the tiddler info
panel 
 or maybe you could make a conditional view template and append
it to the edit view. Of course you miss <transclude 
/>.
Good luck and good night!
Thomas
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[Roger Ferrari]

Using Thomas solution together with the Smart TOC extension for chrome
works just fine for me.

this is the
extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smart-toc/lifgeihcfpkmmlfjbailfpfhbahhibba/related

it has a github page, unfortunately I am no coder/programmer I was trying
to understand a way to get the piece of code to reproduce what the
extension does but I just can't.

Post by Jan
Hi Thomas, thanks a lot for this.
I would prefer an Infobox in the Edit-Mode right below the TiddlerTitle.
It would be best to include a warning wether the Tiddler is transcluded
from somewhere in order to avoid accidental confusions.
...but I also have thought of using your Plugin the other way round to
produce a slice-replacement.
A function extracting some marked piece of a specific Tiddler. Something
like <slice>Text to extract<end>.
This would also have the advantage that it would be immediately visible
that the slice is used elsewhere.
Yours Jan
Hi Jan
The extract macro <http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro> offers a

Post by Jan
-When you discover that the content you wish to change was transcluded,
it takes some time to get to the real tiddler; in most cases I have to find
and open with the searchbar.
It would be practical if transclusions were clickable Links in the
edit-Mode. Could this be done with a template or plugin?

As you would expect, it can find all {{transclusions}} in curly style –
and with the new version (0.9.2) you can output them as a list of links. I
made a demo here: http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Icon%20Test where it lists
all the images used.
I think such a list could be appended as a tab to the tiddler info panel 

or maybe you could make a conditional view template and append it to the
edit view. Of course you miss <transclude 
/>.
Good luck and good night!
Thomas
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[Jan]

Hi Jeremy,
I get the point. The counterargument may be that by slicing all down to
tiddlers, things can accidentally be broken in the next step. Because
you eventually won't remember all places a tiddler is transcludes into.
As a slice this context can be seen at once. That is why I feel more
secure about slices in this aspect.

Kind regards Jan

Post by Jeremy Ruston
It’s clear that users want to be able to write/paste long passages of
text into a tiddler and then individually address sections (or
slices/chunks). In practice, I think that means that anything that one
can presently do to an entire tiddler needs to be possible with a
slice: transclusion, linking, searching, etc.
slices and entire tiddlers. Internally, everywhere that we manipulate
tiddlers we’d need to support slices too.
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler
would be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
That’s where things get interesting: now we’ve redefined a slice to be
a tiddler (which is just what we call a fundamental discrete unit of
content in TiddlyWiki). Now, for performance reasons, we’d want to
avoid repeatedly scanning tiddlers to extract the slices; instead,
we’d want to store the individual slices separately so that we can
efficiently address them as needed.
You can probably see where this goes: we’ve just ended up *renaming*
“tiddlers” to “slices”, and adding facilities to deal with sequences
of slices as discrete entities called “tiddlers”.
That’s pretty much where we are today: it’s easy to combine several
tiddlers to make them appear to be a single tiddler: we use
transclusion, or macros based on transclusion like the TOC macro.
that’s where the text-slicer plugin comes in, showing one way that
these long texts can be split into chunks, and the chunks recombined
in flexible ways.
So, my position isn’t ideological, nor am I wilfully ignoring feedback
from users. But I am asserting that from an engineering perspective
it’s cleaner and more efficient to be dealing with a single
fundamental entity, and to approach the original problem from the
other end: by splitting and recombining.
Best wishes
Jeremy

Post by Jed Carty
I am a bit stuck at the moment because while I don't want to
discourage any exploration into different ways of using TiddlyWiki
there is a TW5 way of doing what you are talking about, which is to
use either more tiddlers or fields which you then place wherever you
want them using transclusions.
Using templates you could have the anchor tag part of the
transclusion so you could navigate to a spot in an open tiddler. If
you want to be able to both open a tiddler and navigate to some spot
in that tiddler than we would need a more complex macro but it may be
able to be done using only wikitext and simple html. Or we may need
to make an action widget that does the same action as clicking on a
normal link.
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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi all! Maybe, this discussion has gone much further than the title implies. But reading some of your posts made me think of a page I made some time ago, where I use a script derived from HTML5 outliner for Chrome to generate a table of contents automatically from HTML titles.

Maybe a gifted JS Programmer could make this script scrolling to the clicked title, no matter if it is in a single tiddler or in one of several open tiddlers.
Just a thought, but I hope it is helpful or at least interesting 

The page is here: http://thomas-elmiger.ch/bookmarklet/tibofix.html (first link)
Outliner is here: https://github.com/h5o/h5o-chrome

Good luck! Thomas

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Please consider the matter from the viewpoint of average users.

Post by Jeremy Ruston
In fact, slices would become the fundamental unit; an entire tiddler would
be a special case of a slice covering the entire tiddler.
Slices are different in several important ways. To start, they are much

lighter than a full tiddler. Each tiddler has about 60 characters
overhead. More importantly, slices are RIGHT THERE while you edit. You
don't have to click link, then click again to edit the tiddler, then close
the tiddler, then check how it all works back in the main document. You
don't have to wrack your head to to write a unique descriptive link for
every semantic unit. You get to see the actual text and not a widget. You
don't have to worry that changing a tiddler title will break a dependent
document.

Finally, in many case, the article, documents, correspondence etc. IS the
"semantic" unit that you want. The tiddler is complete, but you just want
to to add a bookmark or anchor into the text, or quickly find a particular
section, without having to explode the document into a dozen scatter-shot
pieces. It's unnatural to take a piece of correspondence, for instance, and
break it into little pieces just so you can quickly access some particular
piece in the future. Most people would not do that with their real-life
filing, and it feels strange to do it inside of an electronic document.

From a different engineering perspective, each tiddler adds overhead to a
non-indexed system where every byte represents a performance decrease. It's
clear that lots of people enjoyed the slice approach in the TWC, and that
some are going to great lengths to come up with approaches that bring it
back.

Mark

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Mark,

Post by Jeremy Ruston
Slices are different in several important ways. To start, they are much
lighter than a full tiddler. Each tiddler has about 60 characters
overhead. More importantly, slices are RIGHT THERE while you edit. You
don't have to click link, then click again to edit the tiddler, then close
the tiddler, then check how it all works back in the main document. You
don't have to wrack your head to to write a unique descriptive link for
every semantic unit. You get to see the actual text and not a widget. You
don't have to worry that changing a tiddler title will break a dependent
document.

Mhhh, not sure. I don't think there currently is a way to tell TiddlyWiki
to just use a single textarea to edit the entire tiddler as if a ".tid"
file.
I think it would be cool for pro-users, even to switch on the fly between
the two modes.

Atually, it might even be three modes:

1. each field on its own, as is
2. one textarea, as if a "tid file"
3. title and tags on their own, as is, but custom fields and text as if
a tid-file, eventually concatenating all of that to a tid file and commiting

Best wishes,

Tobias.