Discussion:
[tw] [TW5] Single executable version of multi-user tiddlywiki, release candidate
(too old to reply)
Jed Carty
2018-03-18 23:00:33 UTC
Permalink
I have made some improvements to the MultiUser plugin and to make it easier
to use I packaged everything into a single file so you can just download
the file and run it and not have to install anything. I made version for
windows, osx, and linux. If you want to use it you can download the
appropriate file from here:
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases (tiddlyLinux for
linux, tiddlyWin.exe for windows and tiddlyMac for osx).

Put the file wherever you want and run it. On windows you will probably
need to give node permission depending on your firewall settings. It will
start up tiddlywiki with a new wiki and open up your browser to the correct
location. In the browser there will be instructions to make the wiki
available to other computers on the same network if you want to try that.

Even if you are not using tiddlywiki with multiple people this plugin makes
it so that you don't have to worry about saving over your changes if you
open the same wiki in multiple browsers or tabs it will not save over your
edits. And if you want to edit the tiddler files outside of tiddlywiki the
changes will be saved and the browser will be updated immediately.


In other news,
If you want to support the development of my plugins you can donate to the
OokTech Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
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Jed Carty
2018-03-20 09:49:55 UTC
Permalink
From the feedback I am getting from this I don't think that I have been
clear enough so I am going to explicitly say here that this (and the
multi-user plugin normally) can server multiple wikis. So you just start it
once and it can serve as many wikis as you want without you having to start
a new node process. And the configuration to add new wikis to serve is done
inside the wiki in the control panel. You do have to restart to make it
start serving new wikis, but that should change soon.
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Xavier Cazin
2018-03-20 14:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jed,

Wanted to test this magic, so I just downloaded TiddlyOSX release candidate
1. On my Mac (10.13.3), it doesn't want to be executed: OSX opens TextEdit
instead when I double-click or "open" the file (see attachment) 🀔

Best,
Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin
Post by Jed Carty
From the feedback I am getting from this I don't think that I have been
clear enough so I am going to explicitly say here that this (and the
multi-user plugin normally) can server multiple wikis. So you just start it
once and it can serve as many wikis as you want without you having to start
a new node process. And the configuration to add new wikis to serve is done
inside the wiki in the control panel. You do have to restart to make it
start serving new wikis, but that should change soon.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-20 16:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Jed

Its very easy to get started. The configuration Tiddler is excellently
interactive.

Is it possible to add a "My Wikis" section to it?
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Jed Carty
2018-03-20 15:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Oh, it looks like this is a problem caused by me being too familiar with
what I am doing.

You need to make the file executable. To do this open a terminal
(terminal.app) and navigate to where the file is and then type

chmod +x ./tiddlyOSX.dms

and then you should be able to double click on the file and open it. You
may need to cmd click and set the default application to open it with to
terminal.app

And I need to add this to the documentation.
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Xavier Cazin
2018-03-20 15:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Jed,

Wow, indeed, this was enough for it too launch immediately! Very
impressive. I'll explore and tell you how it goes.

Thanks,
Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin
Post by Jed Carty
Oh, it looks like this is a problem caused by me being too familiar with
what I am doing.
You need to make the file executable. To do this open a terminal
(terminal.app) and navigate to where the file is and then type
chmod +x ./tiddlyOSX.dms
and then you should be able to double click on the file and open it. You
may need to cmd click and set the default application to open it with to
terminal.app
And I need to add this to the documentation.
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Xavier Cazin
2018-03-21 20:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jed,

I am exploring this beautiful plugin feature by feature. The one that
struck me was the ability to launch scripts. A direct application of this
could be dictation of selected text. For testing purposes, MacOS has the
built-in command *say* (http://jampal.sourceforge.net/*ptts*.html can be
run on Windows, same for http://*espeak*.sourceforge.net/ on Linux). So I
made an entry in the *scripts* setting like so: "say":"say #something", and
a test tiddler like so:

\define say(t:"bar")
<$list filter="[tag[$t$]]">
<$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='say'
#string={{!!text}}/>
</$list>
\end
<$button actions='<<say "foo">>'>
Dictate text from tiddlers
</$button>

It works almost as expected, but you may guess what happened: script
executions don't wait for the previous one to terminate, so with 3 tiddlers
tagged foo, I felt like I was in a Parisian café.

So here is a feature request: add a parameter to <$action-websocketmessage
that allows a script to stay in the foreground so that the next scripts
have to wait for it to terminate. Hope it makes sense...

Thank you for the great work!
Xavier.


-- Xavier Cazin
Post by Xavier Cazin
Jed,
Wow, indeed, this was enough for it too launch immediately! Very
impressive. I'll explore and tell you how it goes.
Thanks,
Xavier.
-- Xavier Cazin
Post by Jed Carty
Oh, it looks like this is a problem caused by me being too familiar with
what I am doing.
You need to make the file executable. To do this open a terminal
(terminal.app) and navigate to where the file is and then type
chmod +x ./tiddlyOSX.dms
and then you should be able to double click on the file and open it. You
may need to cmd click and set the default application to open it with to
terminal.app
And I need to add this to the documentation.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-20 16:57:54 UTC
Permalink
You click on the + button at the bottom, call it wikis and make it an
object. Then you add entries to that to list each wiki and the path to that
wiki.

Configuration here documentation is here

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-MultiUser/blob/master/Configuration.md

and here

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-MultiUser/blob/master/Documentation/Starting%20Other%20Wikis.tid


I am making some improvements that make this a bit simpler and let you do
all of this without restarting the server, they should be uploaded sometime
later today.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-20 22:04:34 UTC
Permalink
TBH Jed I think I'm gonna need more detailed step by step instructions. I'm
more than willing to help write them up once I'm clearer. I managed to
create the "object" "wiki" but I haven't been able to actually create one
and I wasn't sure whether its a "path" or an "object".

I think part of the complication is I also need to use relative Windows
paths. The idea being that all I create is fully portable.

I see from the notes that giving the name doesn't create the wiki so there
is a further step too I'm unclear on.

I'm very happy to be patient on this. I do really grasp this is a rich tool
that is under development.

This is just a note for your info.

Best wishes
Josiah
Post by Jed Carty
You click on the + button at the bottom, call it wikis and make it an
object. Then you add entries to that to list each wiki and the path to that
wiki.
Configuration here documentation is here
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-MultiUser/blob/master/Configuration.md
and here
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-MultiUser/blob/master/Documentation/Starting%20Other%20Wikis.tid
I am making some improvements that make this a bit simpler and let you do
all of this without restarting the server, they should be uploaded sometime
later today.
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Ed
2018-03-21 15:55:26 UTC
Permalink
OK, come on guys here, at TiddlyWiki Groups
Please, consider supporting Jed at Patreon.
Only three supporters yet.
Jed is one of the mainstays of TW in my humble opinion.
so help out if you can!

Cheers! Edm.
.
.
Post by Jed Carty
I have made some improvements to the MultiUser plugin and to make it
easier to use I packaged everything into a single file so you can just
download the file and run it and not have to install anything. I made
version for windows, osx, and linux. If you want to use it you can download
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases (tiddlyLinux for
linux, tiddlyWin.exe for windows and tiddlyMac for osx).
Put the file wherever you want and run it. On windows you will probably
need to give node permission depending on your firewall settings. It will
start up tiddlywiki with a new wiki and open up your browser to the correct
location. In the browser there will be instructions to make the wiki
available to other computers on the same network if you want to try that.
Even if you are not using tiddlywiki with multiple people this plugin
makes it so that you don't have to worry about saving over your changes if
you open the same wiki in multiple browsers or tabs it will not save over
your edits. And if you want to edit the tiddler files outside of tiddlywiki
the changes will be saved and the browser will be updated immediately.
In other news,
If you want to support the development of my plugins you can donate to the
OokTech Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-21 17:02:37 UTC
Permalink
Ciao Ed.

More than willing.

But does Patreon support one-off payments?

I'm not into long term 25 months at 2 Euro. Tomorrow I may hate you :-)

Just giving 50 Euro in one go is more my style. Its also less costly for me.

Josiah
Post by Ed
OK, come on guys here, at TiddlyWiki Groups
Please, consider supporting Jed at Patreon.
Only three supporters yet.
Jed is one of the mainstays of TW in my humble opinion.
so help out if you can!
Cheers! Edm.
.
.
Post by Jed Carty
I have made some improvements to the MultiUser plugin and to make it
easier to use I packaged everything into a single file so you can just
download the file and run it and not have to install anything. I made
version for windows, osx, and linux. If you want to use it you can download
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases (tiddlyLinux
for linux, tiddlyWin.exe for windows and tiddlyMac for osx).
Put the file wherever you want and run it. On windows you will probably
need to give node permission depending on your firewall settings. It will
start up tiddlywiki with a new wiki and open up your browser to the correct
location. In the browser there will be instructions to make the wiki
available to other computers on the same network if you want to try that.
Even if you are not using tiddlywiki with multiple people this plugin
makes it so that you don't have to worry about saving over your changes if
you open the same wiki in multiple browsers or tabs it will not save over
your edits. And if you want to edit the tiddler files outside of tiddlywiki
the changes will be saved and the browser will be updated immediately.
In other news,
If you want to support the development of my plugins you can donate to
the OokTech Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
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Ed
2018-03-21 22:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Josiah,

Great offer, hope that we all here can chip in and let's not btw forget
Eric, so many years active!!
Shame on me that I neglected him.

I think that Patreon offers such an option, as I have another project that
I support.
That is a film production and they get a one time payment for such a
production,
but Jed would have to see if and how it can be done.

Salut les gars, Edm.
.
.
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Ed.
More than willing.
But does Patreon support one-off payments?
I'm not into long term 25 months at 2 Euro. Tomorrow I may hate you :-)
Just giving 50 Euro in one go is more my style. Its also less costly for
me. And simpler.
Josiah
Post by Ed
OK, come on guys here, at TiddlyWiki Groups
Please, consider supporting Jed at Patreon.
Only three supporters yet.
Jed is one of the mainstays of TW in my humble opinion.
so help out if you can!
Cheers! Edm.
.
.
Post by Jed Carty
I have made some improvements to the MultiUser plugin and to make it
easier to use I packaged everything into a single file so you can just
download the file and run it and not have to install anything. I made
version for windows, osx, and linux. If you want to use it you can download
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases (tiddlyLinux
for linux, tiddlyWin.exe for windows and tiddlyMac for osx).
Put the file wherever you want and run it. On windows you will probably
need to give node permission depending on your firewall settings. It will
start up tiddlywiki with a new wiki and open up your browser to the correct
location. In the browser there will be instructions to make the wiki
available to other computers on the same network if you want to try that.
Even if you are not using tiddlywiki with multiple people this plugin
makes it so that you don't have to worry about saving over your changes if
you open the same wiki in multiple browsers or tabs it will not save over
your edits. And if you want to edit the tiddler files outside of tiddlywiki
the changes will be saved and the browser will be updated immediately.
In other news,
If you want to support the development of my plugins you can donate to
the OokTech Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
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Jed Carty
2018-03-21 21:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Xavier,

I hadn't considered using it that way. I like that idea, I will see what I
can do to ensure that the commands run in sequence.

And this reminds me that I made a text-to-speech plugin for tiddlywiki last
year in oxford that I don't know if I ever got around to publishing. I need
to do that too.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-23 12:22:47 UTC
Permalink
A new release candidate is here!

This time it has a new way of making new wikis without using shell scripts
because that seemed to be the biggest source of problems for people. So now
you go to the tab in the control panel, select the edition you want to use,
give it a name and then click a button and it creates and starts the wiki.
There is even a list that automatically updates to show all the available
wikis being served.

I don't have a reliable way to test this in windows, so windows testers are
appreciated.


OSX note: I haven't found a way to make the file executable when you
download it yet so you have to run 'chmod +x tiddlyOSX.command' in the
terminal before you can use it. Once the other bugs are worked out I will
just bundle it as a .app file and release that which should avoid the
problem.


For the donations conversation:

I don't think that patreon supports one-time donations. We are looking into
setting up a PayPal account that could take one-time donations, but when I
did that with my personal account in the past I didn't have much success.
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Måns Mårtensson
2018-03-23 14:42:11 UTC
Permalink
Wauv!!

Please setup a PayPal account - I wan't to pay for this ;-)

Great work @Jed

Just ran it on Win 10 and everything seems to work out of the box :-)

Also: *What a great way to showcase editions*.

Nice touch with the 0.0.0.0. button ;-)

Is there a way to point to a folder with your own editions - to use as
templates?


Cheers MÃ¥ns MÃ¥rtensson
Post by Jed Carty
A new release candidate is here!
This time it has a new way of making new wikis without using shell scripts
because that seemed to be the biggest source of problems for people. So now
you go to the tab in the control panel, select the edition you want to use,
give it a name and then click a button and it creates and starts the wiki.
There is even a list that automatically updates to show all the available
wikis being served.
I don't have a reliable way to test this in windows, so windows testers
are appreciated.
OSX note: I haven't found a way to make the file executable when you
download it yet so you have to run 'chmod +x tiddlyOSX.command' in the
terminal before you can use it. Once the other bugs are worked out I will
just bundle it as a .app file and release that which should avoid the
problem.
I don't think that patreon supports one-time donations. We are looking
into setting up a PayPal account that could take one-time donations, but
when I did that with my personal account in the past I didn't have much
success.
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BurningTreeC
2018-03-23 15:38:55 UTC
Permalink
@Jed

Your single executable is Great, nuff said.

I'm a poor student but to support this I'm gonna look forward scratching
some pennies together!


Question: do you need help for documentation, or would you welcome PRs on
your repository for the layout stuff?

Simon
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Jed Carty
2018-03-23 15:35:12 UTC
Permalink
As a quick update, I fixed a bug (at least on osx and linux, I can't test
on windows at the moment) that only appears when you don't start from the
command line. Under some circumstances the wiki folders would be created in
unexpected places instead of wherever the executable is. If anyone can test
this on windows I would appreciate it. Thanks to @TiddlyTweeter to pointing
out the bug.

MÃ¥ns,

I am working on allowing external editions to be used as templates. The
internal pseudo-filesystem structure set up by the packing it as a single
executable causes some path problems that I am still working out. After I
get that fixed than creating wikis using custom editions should be possible.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-23 16:35:53 UTC
Permalink
As Jeremy has said many times, the people here aren't the target audience
when asking for donations and support. I like tiddlywiki and the things I
make are normally just the toys that I make in my spare time. This specific
plugin I made to fit my companies internal needs so there is a bit more of
a work aspect to it but most people who are active here also contribute to
the group, asking questions helps determine what is needed and useful,
documentation is always important and bug reports can save everyone a lot
of time by helping to find where problems are.

I mentioned the patreon page because a few people have asked about helping
with the development costs in the past and we made it to support making the
videos with my robot, it wasn't meant to pressure anyone to donate. I do
need to eat and I wouldn't turn down a donation, but I don't want anyone to
feel pressured to donate. I work on tiddlywiki because I enjoy working on
it and unless you are trying to get me to work as an unpaid engineer for a
business than I am fine.

@BurningTreeC,

Both of those sound great. I think that the plugin is stable enough that
most of the improvements will come from better documentation and interface
so anything you can help with would be greatly appreciated.
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Mat
2018-03-23 22:10:43 UTC
Permalink
I'm probably doing a lot of naive mistakes but here's what I did and get:

I downloaded the latest file and simply started it. I'm unsure if I had
node.js installed previously (I did have it at one time but I may have
uninstalled it) but currently when I look, I do have it which might be from
running the TW file. Side note; Windows defender wanted me to not allow it
to run as it was from an unknown distributor.

Anyway, running it I get:

NodeSettings - Failed to load settings file.
NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
NodeSettings - Failed to load settings file.
NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
ws-server - Failed to load settings file.
Websockets listening on 8081
Serving on 127.0.0.1:8080
(press ctrl-C to exit)
syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/ServerIP
For $:/ServerIP, type is application/x-tiddler hasMetaFile is false
filepath is C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\$__ServerIP.tid
saved file C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\$__ServerIP.tid
syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/WikiSettings/
split
For $:/WikiSettings/split, type is application/json hasMetaFile is false
filepath is C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\$__WikiSettings_split
.tid
saved file C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\$__WikiSettings_split.
tid
syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/WikiSettings/
split/ws-server
For $:/WikiSettings/split/ws-server, type is application/json hasMetaFile is
false filepath is C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\
$__WikiSettings_split_ws-server.tid
saved file C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\
$__WikiSettings_split_ws-server.tid
syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/WikiSettings
For $:/WikiSettings, type is application/json hasMetaFile is false filepath
is C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\$__WikiSettings.tid
saved file C:\Users\M\Downloads\TW\IndexWiki\tiddlers\$__WikiSettings.tid
syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/StoryList
new connection

...and Windows firewall showing


<Loading Image...>

...clicking "Allow access" opens new tab in browser (or possibly it opened
before) with

http://127.0.0.1:8080/


Should I continue investigating it or is that pointless at this time
considering the many "fails" listed above? Or is maybe everything as it
should be?


<:-)
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TonyM
2018-03-24 01:30:03 UTC
Permalink
Jed,

Thanks for your work, I will be donating as soon as my own finances are in
order.

I use windows 10, and happy to provide testing and feedback for you there.

I replaced an older version with the latest and of course I no longer saw
the hello. WHich means I did not see the new set the host to 0.0.0.0 button.
Its all in test so I blew away the last "install".
Just a note for upgrades in the future.

My "Editions list" is empty but I saw your comments earlier - are these
pointing to the internet or can we point them to a folder? Even custom
folder(s).

I already have Existing wikis I do not need to create but would like to
point to existing wikis - the documentation tiddler needs to be updated
$:/plugins/OokTech/MultiUser/Starting Other Wikis

To Create the Wikis section create an object named wikis
To add a wiki create a field named "WikiName" with the path as the value
In windows change slash to backslash ?

Can we only point to Node Installs or also single file installs?

Unfortunately there is snsufficent info for me to get the aditional wikis
working

Here is an example
I have a NodeJS install at the folder C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au

"wikis": {

"PSaT":"C:/Data/TW5/NodeJS/psat.com.au

The above closed the server window when I link to it from Available Wikis

As does

"PSaT":"C://Data//TW5//NodeJS//psat.com.au


C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au


C:\\Data\\TW5\\NodeJS\\psat.com.au


Last attempt with more details

"psat.com.au": "C:\\Data\\TW5\\NodeJS\\psat.com.au


NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
Added route /^\/psat.com.au\/?$/
Websockets listening on 8085

Settings.json reads
{
"ws-server": {
"port": "8084",
"rootTiddler": "$:/core/save/single",
"renderType": "text/plain",
"serveType": "text/html",
"username": "",
"password": "",
"host": "0.0.0.0",
"pathprefix": ""
},
"wikis": {
"psat.com.au": "C:\\\\Data\\\\TW5\\\\NodeJS\\\\"
}
}

I hope you can help me, and I you.

Tony
Post by Jed Carty
As Jeremy has said many times, the people here aren't the target audience
when asking for donations and support. I like tiddlywiki and the things I
make are normally just the toys that I make in my spare time. This specific
plugin I made to fit my companies internal needs so there is a bit more of
a work aspect to it but most people who are active here also contribute to
the group, asking questions helps determine what is needed and useful,
documentation is always important and bug reports can save everyone a lot
of time by helping to find where problems are.
I mentioned the patreon page because a few people have asked about helping
with the development costs in the past and we made it to support making the
videos with my robot, it wasn't meant to pressure anyone to donate. I do
need to eat and I wouldn't turn down a donation, but I don't want anyone to
feel pressured to donate. I work on tiddlywiki because I enjoy working on
it and unless you are trying to get me to work as an unpaid engineer for a
business than I am fine.
@BurningTreeC,
Both of those sound great. I think that the plugin is stable enough that
most of the improvements will come from better documentation and interface
so anything you can help with would be greatly appreciated.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-23 23:45:02 UTC
Permalink
That is everything working. All the things failing is just it saying that
the default wiki doesn't exist yet so it creates one. I should change what
all the messages say to something less dire sounding. The next time you
start it it should find all the configuration files and it will say it is
loading them.
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Mat
2018-03-24 14:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jed Carty
That is everything working. All the things failing is just it saying that
the default wiki doesn't exist yet so it creates one. I should change what
all the messages say to something less dire sounding. The next time you
start it it should find all the configuration files and it will say it is
loading them.
OK, so I shut down the tab and the nodejs window and restarted. Now I get:

NodeSettings - Failed to load settings file.
NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
NodeSettings - Failed to load settings file.
NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
ws-server - Failed to load settings file.
Websockets listening on 8081
Serving on 127.0.0.1:8080
(press ctrl-C to exit)
syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/StoryList
new connection


Maybe the failures is because I have not made any settings... and therefore
don't have a settings file?

Some further notes:

For someone not used to nodejs it would be nice to read somewhere that the
nodejs window (or whatever it is called) is supposed to be opened when
running the file... and if it should (i.e must) remain open while using the
wiki.

In the Hello tiddler, there are instructions to set the host to 0.0.0.0
...but further down there seem to be a button that would do this
automatically if clicked. If the button in deed does this, I suggest it is
moved to earlier in the text and have the hands-on description mentioned
only as a link to as a separate tiddler.

The wiki server ip address and port seen - are they specific for my
computer and lan? I.e do other people have different numbers there?

...and does knowing those digits enable me to access the wiki from other
computers on other networks? (assuming my computer is on... and, I guess,
is running the TW). Or what would be required for this to work?

If some of my questions are FAQ then it might be useful to answer them in
the docs rather than here.

Thanks Jed!!!

<:-)
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-24 15:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Node console messaging is full of stuff like ...

*Death is immanent*.
Your current incarnation has been successfully saved.

For a normal user its a bit scary. AND confusing. Its saying one line that
its not saving. The next line its saved.

I think the issue is partly about the purpose as well as the language.

If you using this for development work it makes sense to have a console
visible. But if you using it just to run TW and its setup right I'm not
sure you need to see the console at all.

This was raised in another thread and a possible solution offered, about
not showing the "terminal", from here on: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/I3naFCl37kc/lCt8JTYrBAAJ


I did suggest, at minimal, that the terminal windows could start at say
something like ...

" -- DON'T CLOSE THIS WINDOW UNTIL DONE --
It is running TiddlyWiki in your browser"

Josiah
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Jed Carty
2018-03-24 08:58:48 UTC
Permalink
If the list of editions is empty than that is a bug I haven't run into yet.
To be sure, when you go to the $:/ControlPanel -> Node Settings tab ->
Available Wikis tab and then the click on the select widget the list of
available editions is empty? The editions listed are listed directly in the
tiddler, if the selection is empty than you have a modified version
somehow. All the editions are packaged with the executable, the idea is for
this part to be fully self-contained.

The list below that is the list of wikis it is currently serving, so it
would be empty if you haven't made any yet. When you use the new executable
in the same place and the old one than it would open up the same IndexWiki
you were using before so any settings would be preserved because it is the
same wiki in the same way as updating node wouldn't change the wiki you use
on it.

If you are on windows you should use the windows path separators '\', but
the paths may have to be relative to where you have the executable.

For the moment this only supports node wikis, the multi-user part can't
work on the single file version directly. My plan is to make a seamless way
to add a single file wiki and edit it and then create a new single file
wiki afterward but we aren't there yet.

If what you listed in your post is all that is being output in the terminal
than there is something else going on, it should say 'Serving on
0.0.0.0:8084' and then open up in a browser automatically.

I am going to try and test on windows again to see if I can answer any of
your questions, but it has been over a decade since I used windows so I am
not sure how much help I can be here.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-24 09:14:03 UTC
Permalink
When you say you have a nodejs install do you mean the node executable or
to the tiddlywiki code?
The paths have to be to the tiddlywiki.info files. The path to the
tiddlywiki.info file should be C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info
if you use the path C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au for the wiki.

My quick test on windows let me use both relative and absolute paths, but I
forgot to both update the settings file and the paths the first time I
tried and it didn't work. Make sure you are clicking the buttons to update
them.
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TonyM
2018-03-24 10:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jed,

The Editions suddenly appeared, I rebooted after some strange behaviour,
such as loosing r-click and paste. Create from empty worked well. Where are
the editions sourced from in the exe or over the internet?

However using C:\\Data\\TW5\\NodeJS\\psat.com.au\\tiddlywiki.info
or C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info is not working, when I
select the available wikis tab, it is there however the wiki trys to open
but the tiddlywin.exe window closes

I am running tiddlyWin.exe from C:\Data\TW5\TiddlyWIkiMU

I used a Relative path ..\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info

However we can see from the console the following routes added, which
clearly suggests the path is considered below .\Wikis\test as in the case
for my test wiki (from Empty)

Console message on update routes
Added route /^\/psat.com.au\/?$/
Added route /^\/test\/?$/


I see how the section Wikis is part of the assumed path

I used a Relative path ..\..\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info to lift the
relative path out of wikis folder.

With the same result


I will try a few more things and let you know if I learn something that
will help you see whats happening.



Thanks
Tony
Post by Jed Carty
When you say you have a nodejs install do you mean the node executable or
to the tiddlywiki code?
The paths have to be to the tiddlywiki.info files. The path to the
tiddlywiki.info file should be C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au\
tiddlywiki.info if you use the path C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au for
the wiki.
My quick test on windows let me use both relative and absolute paths, but
I forgot to both update the settings file and the paths the first time I
tried and it didn't work. Make sure you are clicking the buttons to update
them.
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TonyM
2018-03-24 10:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Confirmed Moving psat.com.au below Wikis and adding the
path .\Wikis\psat.com.au works at http://127.0.0.1:8084/psat.com.au

Now all I need is the ability to code relative or absolute paths.

Looking good!

Regards
Tony
Post by TonyM
Thanks Jed,
The Editions suddenly appeared, I rebooted after some strange behaviour,
such as loosing r-click and paste. Create from empty worked well. Where are
the editions sourced from in the exe or over the internet?
However using C:\\Data\\TW5\\NodeJS\\psat.com.au\\tiddlywiki.info
or C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info is not working, when I
select the available wikis tab, it is there however the wiki trys to open
but the tiddlywin.exe window closes
I am running tiddlyWin.exe from C:\Data\TW5\TiddlyWIkiMU
I used a Relative path ..\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info
However we can see from the console the following routes added, which
clearly suggests the path is considered below .\Wikis\test as in the case
for my test wiki (from Empty)
Console message on update routes
Added route /^\/psat.com.au\/?$/
Added route /^\/test\/?$/
I see how the section Wikis is part of the assumed path
I used a Relative path ..\..\NodeJS\psat.com.au\tiddlywiki.info to lift
the relative path out of wikis folder.
With the same result
I will try a few more things and let you know if I learn something that
will help you see whats happening.
Thanks
Tony
Post by Jed Carty
When you say you have a nodejs install do you mean the node executable or
to the tiddlywiki code?
The paths have to be to the tiddlywiki.info files. The path to the
tiddlywiki.info file should be C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au\
tiddlywiki.info if you use the path C:\Data\TW5\NodeJS\psat.com.au for
the wiki.
My quick test on windows let me use both relative and absolute paths, but
I forgot to both update the settings file and the paths the first time I
tried and it didn't work. Make sure you are clicking the buttons to update
them.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-24 10:37:47 UTC
Permalink
I am glad you got it working, I am not sure why it isn't working outside
the Wikis folder. As I mentioned before, there is some strange interaction
between the pseudo-filesystem inside the packaged application and the real
file system so these problems often don't show up when running it normally
which makes it hard to debug. I expect that the next week is going to be
full of digging up unexpected errors.

As a note for the future, you want the path without the tiddlywiki.info
part on it. I will add an issue to make it accept either version, but for
now you don't want to have tiddlywiki.info at the end.
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TonyM
2018-03-24 11:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Jed,

I only coded tiddlywiki.info because i thought you were saying to do so. Dont bother coding for that exception. It makes sence to point at the folder and not add the standard filename to the path. It is redundant info.

Thanks for this great solution.
Tony
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-24 12:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Jed, FYI, I wrote on Twitter this note ...

Under active refinement is @MaybeJed's #MultiUser #TiddlyWiki system ...
Its extremely good. It can be made #portable. Its very flexible. Supports
all main OS.

Please visit and comment.

discussion: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/X6R3Nunh_KU

releases: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases
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Thomas Elmiger
2018-03-27 19:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jed, very cool stuff indeed!

I am up and running on my own machine, but I don’t kow how to restart the
server ... or is this really possible by pressing a button on a webpage?

Are there other things I should check on OS X to serve a wiki to other
machines in my WLAN? I tried to set the server to 0.0.0.0 but the wiki is
always started on http://127.0.0.1:8080

I also made a new wiki using your buttons, but
http://127.0.0.1:8080/LocalWiki seems not to be saved and doesn’t look
German although I chose de-DE edition. Another wiki I made with de-AT has
content, but no german Language plugin (no languages at all).

How can I delete Wikis I am not happy with? (I had a space in my very first
attempt and managed somehow to delete it in settings.json and in my master
wiki.) I would like to be sure that my fumbling not leads to further
problems.

For amateurs like me it yould make starting much easier if more info was
available in a readme or first steps document.

On OS X you have to

- grant rights to the downloaded app to be started
- interprete output of the terminal
- cd into the directory where tiddlyOSX.command can be found
- chmod +x ./tiddlyOSX.command
- double click chmod tiddlyOSX.command again
- (realise you don’t need a plugin to save in Safari)
- (realise a file is downloaded when you click the checkmark in the
sidebar)

Thank you for this, this will be great when finished!

All the best,
Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2018-03-27 19:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Update: my LocalWiki saves now.

Cheers,
Thomas
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Jed Carty
2018-03-27 19:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Your browser opens in 127.0.0.1 even if it is available to the local
network, this doesn't mean other computers can't connect. It should show
you the ip address to use to connect from other computers.
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Thomas Elmiger
2018-03-27 20:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jed, it seems the 0.0.0.0 setting is not saved (although the checkmark
is dark gray, not red).
Post by Jed Carty
Your browser opens in 127.0.0.1 even if it is available to the local
network, this doesn't mean other computers can't connect. It should show
you the ip address to use to connect from other computers.
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TonyM
2018-03-27 23:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Thomas,

In the master wiki there is a button to save settings. This will update the settings.json

Regatds
Tony
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Xavier Cazin
2018-03-28 08:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi Thomas,

Since 0.0.0.0 is *not* a real computer address, you own computer will keep
both 127.0.0.1 (always true for operations local to it like accesses with a
browser running on the same machine) and its local network address that is
displayed in the "Hello!" tiddler (probably assigned automatically at
connection time, and starting with 192.168).

Assigning 0.0.0.0 to the server is just a convention that says that other
hosts in the same local network are allowed to access the wikis operated by
the server. They will do so using your machine local address (thus
typically http://192.168.x.x:8080).

Best,
Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin
Post by Thomas Elmiger
Hi Jed, it seems the 0.0.0.0 setting is not saved (although the checkmark
is dark gray, not red).
Post by Jed Carty
Your browser opens in 127.0.0.1 even if it is available to the local
network, this doesn't mean other computers can't connect. It should show
you the ip address to use to connect from other computers.
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Thomas Elmiger
2018-03-28 21:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Tony and Xavier,

Thank you for the hints, it is working now!

Next: find out why the "retain story ordering" button in the control button
respectively [list[$:/StoryList]] as default tiddler does not work.

Good night and best regards,
Thomas
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-30 12:41:38 UTC
Permalink
Xavier, Jed & all ...

Is there any reason why the "0.0.0.0" should not be set as the default for
multi-accessibility?

I'm talking here as an idiot who can't see any downsides to that.

Josiah
Post by Xavier Cazin
Since 0.0.0.0 is *not* a real computer address, you own computer will
keep both 127.0.0.1 (always true for operations local to it like accesses
with a browser running on the same machine) and its local network address
that is displayed in the "Hello!" tiddler (probably assigned automatically
at connection time, and starting with 192.168).
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Jed Carty
2018-03-28 21:43:37 UTC
Permalink
The story list tiddler isn't saved to the server, otherwise it would force
everyone connected to the wiki to see the same thing. I am trying to come
up with a way to all to retain story ordering feature but I don't think
there is a straight forward way to do it. I think I need to implement the
authentication and login parts for multiple people before I can make saving
the story ordering work.
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TonyM
2018-03-28 23:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Jed,

Could the user name be retained in cookies like twc.

I would be happy to assist in developing a user management layer.

I have this idea that variouse page view and edit templates and some buttons like the edit button could be given an index number from say 1 to 9 which is used with the reveil widget greater than test.the idea is the higher the number the more is revield. Each user could have a value set 1 to 9 that determins what they see such as all elements equal or above.

It need not be enforced, but allow the wiki to be used in different modes from apparently read only through to edit shadow tiddlers.

Regards
Tony
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-30 12:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Ciao Jed

A small suggestion ... That you list Available Wikis first here ...


Best wishes
Josiah
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Jed Carty
2018-03-30 12:21:36 UTC
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I considered that but while It is nice to have the available wikis directly
available at the top but it becomes an accessibility issue because it puts
fixed content under dynamic content. When you have no wikis than the add
wiki interface is at the top and easily visible, but if you add enough
wikis than it won't be visible when you open the tab.

I think that a workable solution is to also put the list in a sidebar tab
like a table of contents. You can transclude the a copy of the list
anywhere you want by putting {{$:/plugins/OokTech/MultiUser/Wiki Listing}}
in a tiddler.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-30 12:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Understood. Your suggestion will do the job. Thanks!
Post by Jed Carty
I considered that but while It is nice to have the available wikis
directly available at the top but it becomes an accessibility issue because
it puts fixed content under dynamic content...
... a workable solution is to also put the list in a sidebar tab like a
table of contents ... transclude the a copy of the list anywhere you want
by putting {{$:/plugins/OokTech/MultiUser/Wiki Listing}} in a tiddler.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-30 12:47:54 UTC
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The downside is that anyone on the network can access the wiki. So if you
have it on your laptop and go to starbucks and use their wifi than everyone
there can use tiddlywiki to run shell commands on your computer.

After I get security and authentication set up than I may consider making
it server on 0.0.0.0 by default, but it is always very risky behaviour.

Someone who knows what they are doing could get access to everything on
your computer and set it up so that your computer can be accessed remotely
any time you are on wifi. So it is not going to be the default setting now,
and probably never will be.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-03-30 12:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the clarification on 0.0.0.0. I get it.
Post by Jed Carty
The downside is that anyone on the network can access the wiki. So if you
have it on your laptop and go to starbucks and use their wifi than everyone
there can use tiddlywiki to run shell commands on your computer.
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Jed Carty
2018-03-30 12:55:52 UTC
Permalink
And because it is almost certainly going to be the next suggestion,
disabling the part that lets it run shell scripts isn't enough to make it
safe. Someone could still get into the wiki do whatever they want, and
possibly install a javascript plugin in the wiki that, while it would only
take effect after the server part is restarted, could do whatever they want
it to do.

With proper authentication than you can avoid a lot of these problems, but
I don't know of any authentication methods that I would trust enough to use
like that. This is different than a normal server where you can use https
and have signed certificates to help with the authentication and security.
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