Discussion:
[tw5] Re: [TW5] Announcing Bob version 1.0.0 Sourdough (formerly MultiUser)
Stobot
2018-05-13 12:05:52 UTC
Jed - again thank you so much

I'm seeing the same thing as Ed with the settings - noticing on both
toolbars and the "fluid story" setting which I always change.

As far as users, the best I was able to test was at work with 8 of us. I
as we could, as fast as we could. Worked flawlessly under those conditions
- even with people all over the country, some connecting in via VPN to be
on-network. I agree that simultaneous edits would be a tougher test, but I
plan to design somewhat around that to mitigate it a bit.

Arlen mentioned "don't need executable" - so for what it's worth I feel
much differently :) I've been using TiddlyWiki a very long time and relied
heavily on TiddlyLock back in what are now the "classic days" for all of my
multi-editor wikis. Not until your plugin did I have something that works,
and was simple enough to understand for a casual non-IT windows user. I
read this community's comments every day and I know the ones most vocal
have the knowledge to handle the "normal" solution, but I've been
completely lost when trying to figure out any of the other server variants,
and I assume I'm not alone, though I certainly *feel* like I'm in the
minority. People like me know 0 javascript, know very little about git
little about how servers work etc. Regardless of my constraints, I've
introduced *hundreds* of people at my company alone to TiddlyWiki. I only
want to make sure the community has a full picture of who their audience
is. I suspect if we took the number or readers of this Google Group and
subtracted the number of contributors, we'd find a lot like me.

All of which is to say I'm very thankful that you Jed - and the rest of the
contributors continue to support this awesome software!
Xavier,
Every time I fix something some old bug comes back. Thank you for letting
me know, I will try and find it. We may get Bob 1.0.1 sooner than I hoped.
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TonyM
2018-05-16 00:17:29 UTC
Jed,

Thanks for the response, I will process this and Hopefully return some
documentation for windows in the end.

- I understood the "otherwiki" was illustrative, The problem has always
being confident of how to specify wikis to be opened, clearly I will stop
trying single file wikis. and Arlen has pointed out why even some editions
created, using bob, fail.
- I also have a problem getting a path to a folder based wiki outside
the bob or below bob folders, and trying to resolve this with no confidence
in the path statement, has being difficult.
- To Test Bob I have being trying to access my existing suite of
Tiddly-wikis.
- I have at one point tried the path "../../instances/wikiname" to
get above the installed folder and back down another branch (I have to
reevaluate this on the basis of no single file wikis)

*Why are you trying to open a wiki from Bob in tiddlyserver?*
Because I could not open some Bob Created folder wikis any other way, it
was purely diagnostic. It showed be that the Bob Created Folder Wikis that
failed were not valid NodeJS Folder wikis in either tool. Since it failed
in both platforms. I thought the TiddlyServer diagnostics may provide some
useful information.

Items to make more Prominent in the Documentation

- Bob only serves TiddlyWiki folders (although it will facilitate the
conversion to and from folder wikis and file-based wikis) it will not serve
File based wikis
- Bob can create TiddlyWiki folders from editions but sometimes further
configuration of that edition may be needed
- Paths to wikis only support Folder Based TiddlyWikis

I value the functionality of Bob that exists no where else, however from a
practical day to day use It would be nice if we could get Bob and
TiddlyWiki server functionality somewhat integrated. I understand the
different functions and limitations however these are not relevant to
organising a suite of TiddlyWikis. It looks as if for me to take advantage
of Bob I am going to have to migrate my key File Wikis into folder based
wikis and chose when I maintain any wiki as a file only version. Of course
running TiddlyServer in parallel on another port, with links to Wikis in my
Bob Wikis linked from my own tiddlers, not under bobs "wiki listing" will
work.

Don't get me wrong, it may be impossible to provide multi-access to a
single File Wiki, but it would not hurt if we could serve single file wikis
from Bob as does TiddlyServer, or link, or integrate the two.

Thanks
Tony
Tony,
I will try to answer the questions in order.
0 - Bob doesn't support single file wikis yet, and even when it does it
won't be the same as what TiddlyServer does. The plan is to have Bob create
a temporary node wiki from the single file wiki so it can have all of Bob
features and it will autosave to the single file version. I hope to make
switching between using the single html file and node seamless doing this.
1 - otherwiki is just the name given to the wiki. Wikis need to have
unique names because they are what determines the url for that wiki. But
wikis: {
"group1":{
"aname": "/some/other/path"
},
"aname": "/some/path"
}
where you would have a wiki at localhost:8080/aname and another wiki at
localhost:8080/group1/aname, so the full path has to be unique, not
specifically the last part.
2 - The paths are to the folders that have the tiddlywiki.info files
3 - The ~ is used in unix systems to point to the home folder of the
current user. I don't think that windows has an equivalent. If you replace
~ with 'c:\Users\inmysocks' (and switch / to \) you would get something
like what you would have in windows.
4 - In file paths '.' represents the current working directory. Which in
this case in the location of the executable. It is how you make relative
paths. So './Wikis/tw5docs' would be the same as putting in
'C:\Users\inmysocks\TiddlyWiki\Wikis\tw5docs' assuming that the executable
was located in 'C:\Users\inmysocks\TiddlyWiki\'
5 - It looks like you have both Bob and tiddlyserver running at the same
time and that error message is something from TiddlyServer. Having both
running at the same time for the same wikis is redundant and will most
likely just break things. Why are you trying to open a wiki from Bob in
tiddlyserver?
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Jed Carty
2018-05-16 06:55:22 UTC
Tony,

You can use absolute paths if that makes things easier, they don't have to
be relative.
I haven't had any reason to use single file wikis with it yet which is why
support isn't there yet. It will be added as I have time to do it. You can
open single file wikis by serving them as static files, but I don't think
they are editable that way.
Is there anything from tiddlyserver other than serving single file wikis
that bob is missing?
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TonyM
2018-05-16 09:48:05 UTC
Jed,

Tiddlserver lets you add paths or directories into settings.json such that you can go to ip:port/path and open any or each single file wiki found in that folder or a folder based wiki if it finds tiddlywiki.info.

This means I can browse to any wiki once there I bookmark it and access it at its address. So the index wiki need not contain links to everything it can serve.

It would be worth you instaling and reviewing for ideas, even work with Arlen.

A hybrid would be awesome.

Regards
Tony
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Jed Carty
2018-05-16 11:21:25 UTC
Aside from not having support for editing single file wikis yet I am not
sure I understand the difference. Is there a problem with having the wikis
listed in the IndexWiki?
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TonyM
2018-05-16 12:50:44 UTC
Jed,

First there is no problem, they are different. Until I find a way to replace the features in tiddlyserver within bob, I will have to use both, which is not a problem.

My view is somewhat biased and that has being due to the difficulties I have faced trying To access my existing wikis through bob. I am still to act on information you gave me and I promised to provide windows documentation when I can.

Thanks
Tony
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-23 18:16:18 UTC
Post by TonyM
First there is no problem, they are different. Until I find a way to
replace the features in tiddlyserver within bob, I will have to use both,
which is not a problem.
Have you played with the scripting in Bob yet? I know you are keen on
desktop management. You can directly launch Windows apps from it with full
command lines, with order to require one to complete before the next starts
etc.

This is probably a spin off from Jed's interest in TW control of Robbie the
Robot. I think its both amazing and incredibly useful to be able to
buttonise and order scripts launching external events from a wiki.

J.
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TonyM
2018-05-24 00:37:53 UTC
Thanks for pointing that Out Josiah,

Can you give any hints to how because I have not yet being able to extract
that from the current doco

Regards
Tony
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
Post by TonyM
First there is no problem, they are different. Until I find a way to
replace the features in tiddlyserver within bob, I will have to use both,
which is not a problem.
Have you played with the scripting in Bob yet? I know you are keen on
desktop management. You can directly launch Windows apps from it with full
command lines, with order to require one to complete before the next starts
etc.
This is probably a spin off from Jed's interest in TW control of Robbie
the Robot. I think its both amazing and incredibly useful to be able to
buttonise and order scripts launching external events from a wiki.
J.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-24 12:09:46 UTC
Post by TonyM
Can you give any hints to how because I have not yet being able to extract
that from the current doco
First, in Bob's start-up wiki navigate to ... $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/readme ... at the foot ... Other Documentation lists relevant items to read. Most relevant to "scripts" is Running Scripts Using Websocket Messages A basic example ... (1) Under scripts in the configuration of of Bob's start-up wiki define a program to run ... for example ... (2) In a Bob wiki (any) create a Button like this ... <$button>
Start HTTrack
<$action-websocketmessage$type='runScript' name='htwhack'/>
</$button> Click. This starts HTTrack. Best wishes Josiah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8dae44ec-4a09-4792-8d79-c7f4a1fc6825%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. TonyM 2018-05-24 23:36:33 UTC Permalink Josiah, Thanks for this hint, it looks so simple, yet I have tried multiple example scripts on my Windows 10 PC and even the simplest causes Bob console to abend and close. The truth is the documentation is minimalist, and I am trying to work it out so I can provide more extensive documentation, yet I face one hurdle after another. I find it hard to determine if it is my mistakes or a bug in Bob, so progress is very slow, If you could possibly give me some more pointers I would appreciate it. I am currently using the single executable but perhaps I should move to the node install. Regards Tony Post by @TiddlyTweeter Post by TonyM Can you give any hints to how because I have not yet being able to extract that from the current doco First, in Bob's start-up wiki navigate to ...$:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/readme ... at the foot ... Other Documentation
lists relevant items to read. Most relevant to "scripts" is Running
Scripts Using Websocket Messages
A basic example ... (1) Under scripts in the configuration of Bob's
start-up wiki define a program to run ... for example ...
(2) In a Bob wiki (any) create a Button like this ...
<$button> Start HTTrack <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='htwhack'/> </$button>
Click. This starts WinHTTrack.
Best wishes
Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-16 14:36:52 UTC
Is there a problem with having the wikis listed in the IndexWiki?
Absolutely not. IMO, having links within the base wiki and option to show a
list in others is EXACTLY the kind of feature needed in converting
"node-ish" for wider usage.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-23 17:42:23 UTC
Jed

The only problem with global system path settings is they are not easily
portable. Vis internal config might be better?

Yes Windows path setting is just as easy as Linux ... How to do it varies a
bit between Windows versions. How it works is identical
I just noticed that I never answered about how to include editions that
aren't packaged in the executable in the list to make new wikis. It uses
the output of the same thing that the --editions command uses so you can
add custom editions to the list by setting the TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH
environment variable the same as in the vanilla node version.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-23 18:25:38 UTC
set sub-address of the install. Its a template set, not wikis in use. Wikis
in use need flex-addressing. Personally I prefer templates in a
predictable, canonical place.
I just noticed that I never answered about how to include editions that
aren't packaged in the executable in the list to make new wikis.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-24 12:43:14 UTC
I have been working on Dodo instead of tiddlywiki so I don't know how long
it will be before I get around to it.
Erm, I thought the Dodo was extinct? :-) WHICH Dodo? There are zillions

Just interested
Josiah
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Jed Carty
2018-05-24 23:59:57 UTC
Tony,

What is a script that you are trying to run? What errors are you getting
when it crashes?

TiddlyTweeter,

Dodo is very not ready for public consumption yet. The code is
here https://gitlab.com/AndMyAxe/Dodo but I doubt that it will be very
interesting to anyone.
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TonyM
2018-05-25 00:16:48 UTC
Jed,

Nothing special, I can redo and provide exact code

But I have tried

Josiahs example

dir c: /p
dir c:\
C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe

All cause abends

Regards
Tony
Post by Jed Carty
Tony,
What is a script that you are trying to run? What errors are you getting
when it crashes?
TiddlyTweeter,
Dodo is very not ready for public consumption yet. The code is here
https://gitlab.com/AndMyAxe/Dodo but I doubt that it will be very
interesting to anyone.
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TonyM
2018-05-25 00:39:30 UTC
Exact Code

"scripts": {
"a": "dir c: /p",
"b": "dir c:\",
"c": "C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe", "command": "Is",
"d": "Start C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe"

<$button> A <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='a'/> </$button>

<$button> B <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='b'/> </$button>

<$button> C <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='c'/> </$button>

<$button> command <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='command'/> </$button>

<$button> D <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='d'/> </$button>
Post by TonyM
Jed,
Nothing special, I can redo and provide exact code
But I have tried
Josiahs example
dir c: /p
dir c:\
C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe
All cause abends
Regards
Tony
Post by Jed Carty
Tony,
What is a script that you are trying to run? What errors are you getting
when it crashes?
TiddlyTweeter,
Dodo is very not ready for public consumption yet. The code is here
https://gitlab.com/AndMyAxe/Dodo but I doubt that it will be very
interesting to anyone.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-25 00:17:18 UTC
I think there is an issue on the Windows console. I suspect its a simple
issue. If you launch a normal windows program from Bob all is fine. But a
simple command like "dir" (equivalent to "ls") terminates Bob.
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TonyM
2018-05-25 00:40:46 UTC
But what commands do work?

Reminder I am currently using single exe

Tony
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
I think there is an issue on the Windows console. I suspect its a simple
issue. If you launch a normal windows program from Bob all is fine. But a
simple command like "dir" (equivalent to "ls") terminates Bob.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-25 00:55:32 UTC
Tony.all your examples are command processor commands. Can you launch a
full windows app? There is definitely an issue that the "Console" is
misbehaving, once it gets a raw command processor instruction it terminates
the console.
Post by TonyM
But what commands do work?
Reminder I am currently using single exe
Tony
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
I think there is an issue on the Windows console. I suspect its a simple
issue. If you launch a normal windows program from Bob all is fine. But a
simple command like "dir" (equivalent to "ls") terminates Bob.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-26 15:23:03 UTC
Dear Bob, Jed & TonyM

Quick update on Windows usage for the RoboBob automation stuff.

All is good so long as you don't send direct commands of the type you'd
normally type at the console as they crash it. I THINK it is something to
do with mode the mode the Bob Console is in (& maybe needs?). It doesn't
behave quite the same as a normal Windows Command Prompt. Its kinda locked
in. BUT I don't think it matters.

Windows BATCH files seem to work perfectly. You can pass parameters to
them. And their results show up in the console.

Windows full executables work without any issue and will take parameters.

Next I'll test running a series of commands.
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
I think there is an issue on the Windows console. I suspect its a simple
issue.
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Ed
2018-05-25 00:42:37 UTC
Aah, my dear Jed, there you are wrong with this "I doubt that it will be
very interesting to anyone"
I linkclicked and read what you wrote, and I think it is very interesting!
That one-node-per-user.
Cutting out the a "middle man" seems pretty fine to me.
TschÃŒÃ, Edm.
Post by Jed Carty
Dodo is very not ready for public consumption yet. The code is here
https://gitlab.com/AndMyAxe/Dodo but I doubt that it will be very
interesting to anyone.
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TonyM
2018-05-25 00:58:32 UTC
Jed,

You always underestimate the interest you can generate. Not only is there a
real need for what you are doing with Dodo but it could form part of other
applications.

I actually have my own Startup in the wings for which I have done
substantial design (not coding) work which could use Bob and/or Dodo as
part of the platform.

Regards
Tony
Post by Jed Carty
Tony,
What is a script that you are trying to run? What errors are you getting
when it crashes?
TiddlyTweeter,
Dodo is very not ready for public consumption yet. The code is here
https://gitlab.com/AndMyAxe/Dodo but I doubt that it will be very
interesting to anyone.
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Jed Carty
2018-05-25 00:54:18 UTC
I haven't come up with anything that works from a terminal on linux or osx
that causes any trouble, if I try to make a script that wouldn't work in a
terminal than it crashes the wiki. I should fix that, but I don't think
that is the problem you are running into because all the commands you have
shown here shouldn't give any errors when run.

On osx and linux things like ls and mkdir work fine, on OSX the say command
works to read things too. Most of the time I just have it run a bash script
by the path like './script.sh'.
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Jed Carty
2018-05-25 01:02:29 UTC
Maybe try adding & to the end of the command? All of the processes run
share the same stdout and stderr and windows may have the most recent
command take control and kill the parent process when it has finished.

Using

dir &

may keep it from terminating the process.
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TonyM
2018-05-25 04:07:44 UTC
Jed,

I just lunched a batch file and exe successfully without terminating the
console as follows

"e": "C:\Data\batches\runandpause.bat",

In fact run and pause did everything, in the console window

echo off
echo Hi
dir c:\
C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe /K
pause
echo any key to end
pause

So there is something causing some scripts to terminate Bob not others

I will investigate, I expect we need to "spawn" a Windows command
interpreter rather than execute it in Bobs one if we want to avoid the
catastrophic failures.

Now I have progress.

Thanks

Tony
Post by Jed Carty
Maybe try adding & to the end of the command? All of the processes run
share the same stdout and stderr and windows may have the most recent
command take control and kill the parent process when it has finished.
Using
dir &
may keep it from terminating the process.
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Jed Carty
2018-05-25 01:07:07 UTC
I know that Dodo has a lot of potential, being able to create a utp
connection between any two devices connected to a network without dns or
other servers could be incredibly powerful, but at the moment even the
other developers that I work with are having trouble following my code and
it isn't a working prototype yet. In that way it isn't very interesting yet.
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TonyM
2018-05-25 04:17:02 UTC
Jed,

As a side note to Dodo, I have thought of two apps having a card (lets
call it a tiddler) each has an encryption key each to a shared resource
(another tiddler) that both can see until such time as either can retract
access. The idea would be to install everything locally except that which
is shared in a single encrypted card. This would only be a one to one
relationship and the shared/stored card would not even be readable by the
host. Alice chooses what they share in the shared card, Bob chooses what he
shares, both can alter details or "burn the link"

In such a model the address for the connection between any two devices
could be done through this shared card, since it represents a one to one
connection anyway. These cards could be in a block chain "contract" but
that gets real scary to contemplate.

Food for thought
Tony
Post by Jed Carty
I know that Dodo has a lot of potential, being able to create a utp
connection between any two devices connected to a network without dns or
other servers could be incredibly powerful, but at the moment even the
other developers that I work with are having trouble following my code and
it isn't a working prototype yet. In that way it isn't very interesting yet.
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Jed Carty
2018-05-25 04:40:23 UTC
That is not unlike a system for anonymous credentials that I am doing work on, but block chain is a completely uninteresting technology. The most useful application of block chain ideas remains git commits and they were around for a long time before anyone called it a blockchain.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-26 15:50:04 UTC
Ciao Bob & Jed

I find intriguing that the wikis that Bob creates seem to be aware about
Bob?

I mean, I can run a script in .\Wikis\katex\ that needs to get that from
Bob. How does that work? How does "katex" know?

As I get into the automation I'm looking at ways to minimise the amount of
typing (and errors) I make on paths. I started doing stuff like this ...
basic boilerplate, wiki-by-wiki ... (just change the value in first line
for each Wiki)

\define twName() katex
\define tidsAt() .\Wikis\$(twName)$\tiddlers\*.tid
\define sfFrom() .\Wikis\$(twName)$\output\index.html
\define sfTo() ..\..\pages\tw\tw_$(twName)$\$(twName)$.html

<$button> Edit ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' Tid files
<$action-websocketmessage$type=runScript name=editpad #path=<<tidsAt>>
#instance='/newinstance'/>
</$button> <br>at: <<tidsAt>> <$button>
Make a ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' single file <$action-websocketmessage $type='buildHTMLWiki'/> </$button>
<br>at: <<sfFrom>>

<$button> Copy ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' single file to new home
<$action-websocketmessage$type=runScript name=copySFwiki
#from=<<sfFrom>> #to=<<sfTo>> />
</$button> <br>copy: <<sfFrom>> <br>to: <<sfTo>> <$button>
Start HTTrack
<$action-websocketmessage$type='runScript' name='htwhack'/>
</$button> The scripts are ... But I'm not so sure its the most efficient way because there is something about shared knowledge between Bob and the plebeian Wiki's I maybe not properly grasping? Hope this is clear enough? Best wishes Josiah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3f66497c-7fd2-4024-b117-074c9c6d953e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. TonyM 2018-05-27 07:09:36 UTC Permalink Josiah, I think the direct answer, in common language, to "How does "katex" know?" is actually the address eg: http://127.0.0.1:8084/katex actually means go to the host http://127.0.0.1:8084 (bob) who then serves /katex So Bob is doing the serving of Katex and "is present when viewing katex" Regards tony Post by @TiddlyTweeter Ciao Bob & Jed I find intriguing that the wikis that Bob creates seem to be aware about Bob? I mean, I can run a script in .\Wikis\katex\ that needs to get that from Bob. How does that work? How does "katex" know? As I get into the automation I'm looking at ways to minimise the amount of typing (and errors) I make on paths. I started doing stuff like this ... basic boilerplate, wiki-by-wiki ... (just change the value in first line for each Wiki) \define twName() katex \define tidsAt() .\Wikis\$(twName)$\tiddlers\*.tid \define sfFrom() .\Wikis\$(twName)$\output\index.html \define sfTo() ..\..\pages\tw\tw_$(twName)$\$(twName)$.html <$button>
Edit ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' Tid files <$action-websocketmessage $type=runScript name=editpad #path=<<tidsAt>> #instance='/newinstance'/> </$button>
<br>at: <<tidsAt>>
<$button> Make a ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' single file
<$action-websocketmessage$type='buildHTMLWiki'/>
</$button> <br>at: <<sfFrom>> <$button>
Copy ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' single file to new home <$action-websocketmessage $type=runScript name=copySFwiki #from=<<sfFrom>> #to=<<sfTo>> /> </$button>
<br>copy: <<sfFrom>>
<br>to: <<sfTo>>
<$button> Start HTTrack <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='htwhack'/> </$button>
The scripts are ...
But I'm not so sure its the most efficient way because there is something
about shared knowledge between Bob and the plebeian Wiki's I maybe not
properly grasping?
Hope this is clear enough?
Best wishes
Josiah
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Jed Carty
2018-05-26 22:12:24 UTC
I think that the problem with the windows commands is from all of the
commands sharing the same io streams. I can add an option to have a command
run with its own terminal instead of in the shared terminal with Bob and
that may help. The downside is that it may spawn a new window for each
script that runs.

I am not sure what the differences between bash and the windows command
prompt are that may cause this but that is the only thing I can come up
with that may fix it.

TiddlyTweeter,

All of the wikis share the same settings that you can only edit from the
root wiki. The settings go with the node process, not with the specific
wiki. I looked into per-wiki settings but so far I haven't run into a
situation where it would be helpful.

There is a tiddler called $:/WikiName that has the name of the current wiki that is used by the back-end, so you can just transclude that instead of defining it in the macro. And the buildHTMLWiki message can take outputFolder and outputName parameters that you can use to set the location of the generated html file so you may not need to manually copy them after they are created. Other than that I think you are doing it about as efficiently as is possible at the moment. Have you run into any troubles with the generated html files? I had seen some strange behaviour where I wasn't always able to import them into other wikis by dragging and dropping the html but I haven't been able to test it out much yet. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/45e3c82f-57dc-4446-8142-8de90199567a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. @TiddlyTweeter 2018-05-27 11:59:20 UTC Permalink Post by Jed Carty I think that the problem with the windows commands is from all of the commands sharing the same io streams. I can add an option to have a command run with its own terminal instead of in the shared terminal with Bob and that may help. The downside is that it may spawn a new window for each script that runs. Having a separate terminal window on Windows could be useful. But not if it changes the current behaviour. As an additional feature, Yes, definitekly. As a standard way of running, No. Reason being it complicates things for more routine procedures where a simple batch file will do the job already in the primary console. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/93f80e52-2f49-41fd-aec3-ea372b3d8439%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. @TiddlyTweeter 2018-05-29 13:41:56 UTC Permalink Jed Further to the posts before (below) ... I just noticed that if you start Windows apps using scripts that when you terminate Bob it also terminates those apps. (FYI, they are not "calls" which would pause Bob, they have their own memory space and run fine & don't interfere). Could there be way to have flag on script launch that created a separate process that isn't a child of Bob? Such that it could persist after Bob expires? Hope this is clear! Josiah Post by @TiddlyTweeter Post by Jed Carty I think that the problem with the windows commands is from all of the commands sharing the same io streams. I can add an option to have a command run with its own terminal instead of in the shared terminal with Bob and that may help. The downside is that it may spawn a new window for each script that runs. Having a separate terminal window on Windows could be useful. But not if it changes the current behaviour. As an additional feature, Yes, definitekly. As a standard way of running, No. Reason being it complicates things for more routine procedures where a simple batch file will do the job already in the primary console. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4d24086f-d258-423f-90d9-b03e5ca10349%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Jed Carty 2018-05-29 14:53:54 UTC Permalink TiddlyTweeter, That is probably caused my the same thing as the child processes closing the wiki in windows but this one may happen on osx and Linux also. I think the same solution will work but I don't think I will get to it until I am back in Paris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/14235302-f27f-49f7-9705-084782cb1fd1%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. @TiddlyTweeter 2018-05-29 15:02:43 UTC Permalink That it is not, probably, just Windows, is encouraging. Meaning a universal solution for all OS is likely gonna work. I am in no hurry. Just wanted to check you grasped the issue. J x Post by Jed Carty TiddlyTweeter, That is probably caused my the same thing as the child processes closing the wiki in windows but this one may happen on osx and Linux also. I think the same solution will work but I don't think I will get to it until I am back in Paris. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/13095590-b2dc-4200-a41e-403f84c67801%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. @TiddlyTweeter 2018-05-27 12:04:53 UTC Permalink Jed : All of the wikis share the same settings that you can only edit from the root wiki. TonyM : So Bob is doing the serving of Katex and "is present when viewing katex" Okay. So does this mean that if I define global variables in Bob ("father & mother"/"Bob & Roberta") all of its children know them? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/24fa6219-0b82-4dd3-9664-da743eb817f8%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. TonyM 2018-05-27 13:41:01 UTC Permalink I doubt it. Just as we would not expect it on tiddlyserver. However the scripts and other bob specifics would. The ip and port is where bob hosts its root wiki and "mounts" other wikis as folders. Of course just as Jed made the wikiname available he may be able to do more like let bob share some tiddlers to all children. That may make what you ask posible, by sharing a tiddler tagged macros. Only Jed can answer. Regards Tony -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+***@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to ***@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/78176727-e29d-4220-ba61-e8ec235ca679%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. @TiddlyTweeter 2018-05-27 12:14:20 UTC Permalink Jed ... There is a tiddler called$:/WikiName that has the name of the current
wiki that is used by the back-end, so you can just transclude that instead
of defining it in the macro. And the buildHTMLWiki message can take
outputFolder and outputName parameters that you can use to set the location
of the generated html file so you may not need to manually copy them after
they are created.
Thank you for the clarification! It will help a lot.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-05-27 12:16:05 UTC
Jed...
Have you run into any troubles with the generated html files? I had seen
some strange behaviour where I wasn't always able to import them into other
wikis by dragging and dropping the html but I haven't been able to test it
out much yet.
I have not had any troubles yet. I will let you know if I do.
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Jed Carty
2018-05-27 20:31:45 UTC
TiddlyTweeter,

You can put anything you want into the Bob settings and they will be the
same in every wiki, and the getSettings macro can be used to access them. I
haven't done a lot of testing with this in child wikis so there may be
bugs. https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Macros/getSettingMacro.tid

Global macros and variables are only in their own wikis, there isn't
anything to share them yet. I am trying to find the best way to share
tiddlers between wikis. I will probably set it up so you can set a filter
that gives the tiddlers that will be shared with all the wikis. I am not
sure how to handle editing shared tiddlers, they may not be editable
outside of their original wiki.
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TonyM
2018-05-28 00:13:28 UTC
Jed,

The sharing of tiddlers to children, can they be done using nodeJS settings
as can be done to share a plugin Library?

I have built my own tiddler sharing mechanism for all wikis including file
based Wikis, and using iframes to drag and drop between them. As stated
previously this is a Bob advantage because of its multi-access features.

Some thoughts of concern

If you do enable shared Tiddlers can I suggest you keep it as providing a
mechanism for designers, perhaps with an example, however try not to over
complicate the interface as this will add fragility to your solution and
may demand more effort on your part to maintain. The time is coming for
others to help extend what Bob can do through adding third party solutions
on top. Of course any advances on Bobs features are welcome, you have being
very responsive to us all, we depend on you for the platform, we need to
take some responsibility for solutions on Top of Bob.

Thanks Heaps
tony
Post by Jed Carty
TiddlyTweeter,
You can put anything you want into the Bob settings and they will be the
same in every wiki, and the getSettings macro can be used to access them. I
haven't done a lot of testing with this in child wikis so there may be
bugs.
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Macros/getSettingMacro.tid
Global macros and variables are only in their own wikis, there isn't
anything to share them yet. I am trying to find the best way to share
tiddlers between wikis. I will probably set it up so you can set a filter
that gives the tiddlers that will be shared with all the wikis. I am not
sure how to handle editing shared tiddlers, they may not be editable
outside of their original wiki.
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'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
2018-05-28 04:59:45 UTC
The manual directions say to:

cp -r TiddlyWiki5/plugins/OokTech/Bob/BobWiki TiddlyWiki5/Wikis/BobWiki/

But the "BobWiki" subdirectory does not appear to have been made when following the prior directions.

I see that there is a "MultiUserWiki" dir. So ... perhaps that is what is intended?

Thanks!
Mark
Bob version 1.0.0 is now available.
It is the renamed version of the MultiUser plugin. For people who aren't
- Serve multiple wikis
- Two-way syncing of changes between the browser and file system
- Multiple people can use and edit served wikis simultaneously
- A static file server for images and other media (include files from the
local file system in the wiki)
- Changing the name
- Adding a message that lets you stop queued scripts in progress
Plugin repo: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases/tag/1.0.0
Let me know if you find bugs.
Updating to Bob from MultiUser will take a few changes.
single executable version
If you are using the single executable version then you will need to edit
the tiddlywiki.info file in the IndexWiki folder. There is a line
"OokTech/MultiUser"
change that line to
"OokTech/Bob"
plugin version
If you are using the plugin version, in addition to changing the
tiddlywiki.info file for your root wiki, you will need to either: 1)
change the remote url of the plugin repo or 2) just delete the old plugin
and clone Bob again.
Other than that, everything should be compatible.
If you want to support the development OokTech has a patreon page here
https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
or if you prefer there is a link for PayPal here
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=ZG94CTLHTKYRE
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-06-11 14:10:56 UTC
A silly question for Bob. Can Bob program my kettle to boil at 6.45 am?
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Jed Carty
2018-06-11 14:39:55 UTC
There are a few ways to make a plugin for Bob that would make your kettle
turn on at 6:45am.
My favourite option is to make Bob start singing off key as loudly as
possible until the kettle is turned on.

If you are looking for a more direct method than it depends on how well

I am looking forward to the day when Robbie and Bob start playing together
and take over the world.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-06-11 14:45:31 UTC
Post by Jed Carty
There are a few ways to make a plugin for Bob that would make your kettle
turn on at 6:45am.
My favourite option is to make Bob start singing off key as loudly as
possible until the kettle is turned on.
rofl!

If you are looking for a more direct method than it depends on how well
Post by Jed Carty
I am looking forward to the day when Robbie and Bob start playing together
and take over the world.
It might get better that way.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-06-14 10:43:58 UTC
Jed.

This just feedback. I been using Bob to open all .tids in a Wiki and it
edits fine. I not had any problems. Occasionally if I'm idiot enough to
edit a Tid in TW and a text editor simultanously, whichever saves first
wins :-)

Windows users just need to be sure that their plain text editing program
does not "lock" files.

Josiah.
Bob should support editing tiddler files while it is running but I haven't
done any testing changing many tiddler files simultaneously so I am not
sure how it would react.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-06-14 13:27:00 UTC
Jed. I worked out how to set an environmental variable for Bob path to TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH
that would be properly portable and not change the registry. Set via
Windows before Bob starts...

set TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH=%cd%\tpl

result ...

C:\bag\PortableApps\twBOB\tpl\

In that directory there will be a sub-directory for each "edition."
Currently it has ...

... katex2\

That is a test clone of one wiki I have working already.

Maybe I don't understand how it works? Anyway I don't see an option to
select it come up on the menu to select a wiki.

Any tips appreciated.
Josiah

Josiah: The only problem with global system path settings is they are not
easily portable. Via internal config might be better?
I just noticed that I never answered about how to include editions that
aren't packaged in the executable in the list to make new wikis. It uses
the output of the same thing that the --editions command uses so you can
add custom editions to the list by setting the TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH
environment variable the same as in the vanilla node version.
Jed.
This just feedback. I been using Bob to open all .tids in a Wiki and it
edits fine. I not had any problems. Occasionally if I'm idiot enough to
edit a Tid in TW and a text editor simultanously, whichever saves first
wins :-)
Windows users just need to be sure that their plain text editing program
does not "lock" files.
Josiah.
Bob should support editing tiddler files while it is running but I
haven't done any testing changing many tiddler files simultaneously so I am
not sure how it would react.
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Jed Carty
2018-06-15 13:53:08 UTC
Unfortunately for external editors competing with the built-in editor there
isn't much I can do. I don't want to touch the behaviour of the draft
tiddlers and they don't update when the original tiddler changes, I think
that is good behaviour. And of course I have no control over any external
editor. I think that this is just going to be a limitation for now.

For setting the environment variable I don't know where the problem is. It
may be that node doesn't correctly interpret the placeholder. I am in the
process of releasing version 1.0.2 which lets you set the location in the
settings and supports relative paths.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-06-15 14:50:09 UTC
I agree with you about it being a good behaviour on editing actually. I'm
getting done what I need to with virtually no issues.
Post by Jed Carty
Unfortunately for external editors competing with the built-in editor
there isn't much I can do. I don't want to touch the behaviour of the draft
tiddlers and they don't update when the original tiddler changes, I think
that is good behaviour. And of course I have no control over any external
editor. I think that this is just going to be a limitation for now.
On environment variable I'll wait. Is no kind problem. Its not way urgent.
Post by Jed Carty
For setting the environment variable I don't know where the problem is. It
may be that node doesn't correctly interpret the placeholder. I am in the
process of releasing version 1.0.2 which lets you set the location in the
settings and supports relative paths.
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David Gifford
2018-06-16 13:47:02 UTC
Been a month, but I finally updated Multiuser to Bob in the toolmap.
Bob version 1.0.0 is now available.
It is the renamed version of the MultiUser plugin. For people who aren't
- Serve multiple wikis
- Two-way syncing of changes between the browser and file system
- Multiple people can use and edit served wikis simultaneously
- A static file server for images and other media (include files from the
local file system in the wiki)
- Changing the name
- Adding a message that lets you stop queued scripts in progress
Plugin repo: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases/tag/1.0.0
Let me know if you find bugs.
Updating to Bob from MultiUser will take a few changes.
single executable version
If you are using the single executable version then you will need to edit
the tiddlywiki.info file in the IndexWiki folder. There is a line
"OokTech/MultiUser"
change that line to
"OokTech/Bob"
plugin version
If you are using the plugin version, in addition to changing the
tiddlywiki.info file for your root wiki, you will need to either: 1)
change the remote url of the plugin repo or 2) just delete the old plugin
and clone Bob again.
Other than that, everything should be compatible.
If you want to support the development OokTech has a patreon page here
https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
or if you prefer there is a link for PayPal here
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=ZG94CTLHTKYRE
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