Discussion:
[tw5] SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-04 14:04:10 UTC
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Hi community,
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within tiddlywiki
I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon
be available for drag&drop installation

Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. The
top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.

I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the
tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week

all the best,
BurningTreeC
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h0p3
2018-08-05 01:01:06 UTC
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Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fselectmode.tiddlyspot.com&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF9Egw0JZO9ua6IhLV9uxHt-zZIBg>,
where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag&drop
installation
Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my
favorite plug-in.

Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
Post by BurningTreeC
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.

- You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It doesn't
follow you, and that might be worth having.
- I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That function
wasn't working nicely for on that particular TW, and I'm not sure why. This
might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of the top, which
also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the 'Escape' key to
cancel)" bar.
- Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
- You might consider adding a search bar without so many tabs to step
through a list more effectively than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
- The "highlighting" of current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I
really appreciate that very much.


This is really awesome.
Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon
be available for drag&drop installation
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the
tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
all the best,
BurningTreeC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-05 11:55:15 UTC
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Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
Post by BurningTreeC
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fselectmode.tiddlyspot.com&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF9Egw0JZO9ua6IhLV9uxHt-zZIBg>,
where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag&drop
installation
Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my
favorite plug-in.
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
Post by BurningTreeC
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.
- You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It
doesn't follow you, and that might be worth having. The "highlighting" of
current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I really appreciate that
very much, and I may not really even need the bar just because of that
gorgeous highlighting.
- I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That
function wasn't working nicely for me on that particular TW, and I'm not
sure why. This might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of
the top, which also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the
'Escape' key to cancel)" bar.
- Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
- You might consider adding a search bar that steps through entries
better than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
This is really awesome.
Thanks, very helpful!
I've addressed some points you've mentioned:
The select-mode bar is on the bottom now and should have sticky position
You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when
editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in
select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs

How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it
search for... ?

BTC
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Alex Hough
2018-08-05 12:12:07 UTC
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BurningTreeC,

when you open the tiddler for editing with 'e' could the focus be on the
tiddler body?

really like this approach - i puts an other layer of editing over the top
of the TW.



Alex
Post by BurningTreeC
Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
Post by BurningTreeC
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fselectmode.tiddlyspot.com&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF9Egw0JZO9ua6IhLV9uxHt-zZIBg>,
where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag&drop
installation
Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my
favorite plug-in.
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
Post by BurningTreeC
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.
- You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It
doesn't follow you, and that might be worth having. The "highlighting" of
current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I really appreciate that
very much, and I may not really even need the bar just because of that
gorgeous highlighting.
- I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That
function wasn't working nicely for me on that particular TW, and I'm not
sure why. This might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of
the top, which also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the
'Escape' key to cancel)" bar.
- Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
- You might consider adding a search bar that steps through entries
better than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
This is really awesome.
Thanks, very helpful!
The select-mode bar is on the bottom now and should have sticky position
You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when
editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in
select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it
search for... ?
BTC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-05 12:30:39 UTC
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Post by Alex Hough
BurningTreeC,
when you open the tiddler for editing with 'e' could the focus be on the
tiddler body?
really like this approach - i puts an other layer of editing over the top
of the TW.
Alex
Hi Alex, yes there is an option now, see the SelectMode Intro Tiddler at
the bottom. It can also be changed in SelectMode (currently "F" for Focus)
- can also be used to jump from the editor to the title or vice-versa.
This functionality will stay, but I think it can be enhanced a bit to be
able to jump to title, tags, editor, type or fields inputs

I also have to think about how to integrate keyboard-selection of entries
in the tags, type and field dropdowns. Currently I have a local testing
version that makes the dropdown entries selectable by the Tabulator key
when activating it with a shortcut. There may be better options that
integrate better with SelectMode
I'll add this functionality these days and I'd be glad about comments about
how to integrate it well... but step-by-step, I'll leave a notice here when
it's testable online

BTC
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h0p3
2018-08-05 19:56:18 UTC
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This post turned out longer than I expected. You'll have to forgive me if
what I'm saying is weird or not useful to you. I'm thinking outloud. I want
you to know, I love the tool you are building, and I'm intensely grateful.

You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when
Post by BurningTreeC
editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in
select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
Making shortcuts to target features for any focused tiddler is a damned
good idea. I don't know how far you are going with this, and I might have
the wrong vision. Building a framework to control as many standard
components of Tiddlywiki through a keyboard might be worthwhile. The more I
think about this, the more I'm convinced some version of your plugin should
be in Tiddlywiki's primary codebase (I always wonder if some aspects of the
code will eventually go WASM, but that may defeat the purpose).

Your tool is a hack for me. It allows to navigate and organize large
workflows by hand, which is the intended purpose, but more importantly, it
allows me to leverage non-JS ecosystems without NPM. I really do want to
keep Tiddlywiki as self-contained as possible inside a single HTML. That's
what is truly magic about it. The moment I'm leaving the browser to run NPM
though, I feel like I should just be using some other tool besides
Tiddlywiki (this may just be my incompetence though).

I think I'm going to abuse your tool in a way that is simply the result of
me not being able to figure out how to write my own JS modifications of the
wiki. To me, you are giving us platform agnostic controls over the wiki, a
ghetto API to a magical blackbox meant for skiddies like me.


Back when I used Windows, I was an AutoHotKey fan. In many cases, I might
not want or be able to touch the memory of a program, but I can
programmatically tell you how to interact with it from the keyboard and
mouse. Your tool may be a bridge for me. I'm interested in integrating a
lot of python and bash (actually, xonsh) scripts into my TW. For example, I
now use a tool that sanitizes my clipboard with replacements and pastes
(because I have to move data from other programs through clipboard often
enough). I also have a script which takes a list of tiddlers from "New" and
organizes them into a nested list structure that I consistently use as a
template. Automating tiddler creation, templating, and other processes
through the keyboard may give me the Rube-Goldberg machine I always dreamed
of. Thank you. =)


If Tiddlywiki is a specialized self-contained VMed OS in my browser
(Zawinski's law, give me the ability to decentrally mail tiddlers!), then
maybe you're building some kind of visual commandline (I wonder what a
console would look like in Tiddlywiki; a true commandline could be very
powerful). I hope to read titles, xonsh parse and massage data, and use
your tool to manually edit Tiddlywiki through xdotool and i3msgs. I can do
this through NPM, but it requires decompiling and recompiling the
Tiddlywiki (which I may just be forced to accept in the end); it has not
been foolproof for me either.

On a side note, I'm forced to use this:
https://philosopher.life/#%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview:%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview,
a tool to disable toolbars, in order to maintain the font I want to have in
the editor itself. Is this going to be a huge monkeywrench?


My claim might be dumb, and perhaps it should not have any influence on
what you are constructing because this is just one person's oddball
usecase. I'll leave that up to you.

How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it
Post by BurningTreeC
search for... ?
I want to open search from keyboard, type stuff in, and use my keyboard to
quickly navigate through the list. Currently, it has very poor
highlighting, I must use Tab and Ctrl+Tab to move through the list (would
love more options), and I have to Tab quite a bit to actually get to
navigating the list in the first place. I suppose I may just fix this
myself though (the highlighting I cannot).

Some of the work that others to do with tagging I choose to do with titles
(so far, I'm not seeing why I should switch over to tags, but I may be
blind here). Eventually, I aim to be able to search by title and then
search for text within those titles (that may be already possible, but I've
not figured out how yet). I may end up having to write out a bunch of
specialized query templates.

Organizing my wiki is a very large matter of debate which I continue to
think about. The softness of Tiddlywiki as software is exactly what I need
as I figure out what it's supposed to look like. Search is ridiculously
important, but I think I actually need to finds ways that are specifically
tailored to the structures I have built. I will think more about your
question.
Post by BurningTreeC
Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
Post by BurningTreeC
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fselectmode.tiddlyspot.com&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF9Egw0JZO9ua6IhLV9uxHt-zZIBg>,
where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag&drop
installation
Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my
favorite plug-in.
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
Post by BurningTreeC
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.
- You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It
doesn't follow you, and that might be worth having. The "highlighting" of
current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I really appreciate that
very much, and I may not really even need the bar just because of that
gorgeous highlighting.
- I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That
function wasn't working nicely for me on that particular TW, and I'm not
sure why. This might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of
the top, which also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the
'Escape' key to cancel)" bar.
- Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
- You might consider adding a search bar that steps through entries
better than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
This is really awesome.
Thanks, very helpful!
The select-mode bar is on the bottom now and should have sticky position
You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when
editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in
select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it
search for... ?
BTC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-06 12:23:11 UTC
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Post by h0p3
This post turned out longer than I expected. You'll have to forgive me if
what I'm saying is weird or not useful to you. I'm thinking outloud. I want
you to know, I love the tool you are building, and I'm intensely grateful.
Thanks!
Post by h0p3
You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when
Post by BurningTreeC
editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in
select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
Making shortcuts to target features for any focused tiddler is a damned
good idea. I don't know how far you are going with this, and I might have
the wrong vision. Building a framework to control a variety of standard
components (perhaps beyond what you have already) of Tiddlywiki through a
keyboard might be worthwhile. The more I think about this, the more I'm
convinced some version of your plugin should be in Tiddlywiki's primary
codebase (I always wonder if some aspects of the code will eventually go
WASM, but that may defeat the purpose).
I actually want to go further with this keyboard-centered approach. There's
the sidebar that can be made key-boardable, too... basically everything
that forces me to use my mouse where under i3 I'd always just press a
shortcut is a target for select-mode.

I think you're right that something like this should be in TW's codebase.
Post by h0p3
Your tool is a hack for me. It allows to navigate and organize large
workflows by hand, which is the intended purpose, but more importantly, it
allows me to leverage non-JS ecosystems without NPM. I really do want to
keep Tiddlywiki as self-contained as possible inside a single HTML file.
That's what is truly magic about it. The moment I'm leaving the browser to
run NPM though, I feel like I should just be using some other tool besides
Tiddlywiki (this may just be my incompetence though).
I tried that nodejs-approach but the missing live-reload killed it for me.
Post by h0p3
I think I'm going to abuse your tool in a way that is simply the result of
me not being able to figure out how to write my own JS modifications of the
wiki. To me, you are giving us platform agnostic controls over the wiki, a
ghetto API to a magical blackbox meant for skiddies like me.
Back when I used Windows, I was an AutoHotKey fan. In many cases, I might
not want or be able to touch the memory of a program, but I can
programmatically tell you how to interact with it from the keyboard and
mouse. Your tool may be a bridge for me. I'm interested in integrating a
lot of python and bash (actually, xonsh) scripts into my TW. For example, I
now use a tool that sanitizes my clipboard with replacements and pastes
(because I have to move data from other programs through clipboard often
enough). I also have a script which takes a list of tiddlers from "New" and
organizes them into a nested list structure that I consistently use as a
template. Automating tiddler creation, templating, and other processes
through the keyboard may give me the Rube-Goldberg machine I always dreamed
of. Thank you. =)
If Tiddlywiki is a specialized self-contained VMed OS in my browser
(Zawinski's law, give me the ability to decentrally mail tiddlers!), then
maybe you're building some kind of visual commandline (I wonder what a
console would look like in Tiddlywiki; a true commandline could be very
powerful). I hope to read titles, xonsh parse and massage data, and use
your tool to manually edit Tiddlywiki through xdotool and i3msgs. I can do
this through NPM, but it requires decompiling and recompiling the
Tiddlywiki (which I may just be forced to accept in the end); it has not
been foolproof for me either.
https://philosopher.life/#%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview:%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview,
a tool to disable toolbars, in order to maintain the font I want to have in
the editor itself. Is this going to be a huge monkeywrench?
My claim might be dumb, and perhaps it should not have any influence on
what you are constructing because this is just one person's oddball
usecase. I'll leave that up to you.
How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it
Post by BurningTreeC
search for... ?
I want to open search from keyboard, type stuff in, and use my keyboard to
quickly navigate through the list. Currently, it has very poor
highlighting, I must use Tab and Ctrl+Tab to move through the list (would
love more options), and I have to Tab quite a bit to actually get to
navigating the list in the first place. I suppose I may just fix this
myself though (the highlighting I cannot).
Some of the work that others to do with tagging I choose to do with titles
(so far, I'm not seeing why I should switch over to tags, but I may be
blind here). Eventually, I aim to be able to search by title and then
search for text within those titles (that may be already possible, but I've
not figured out how yet). I may end up having to write out a bunch of
specialized query templates.
The softness of Tiddlywiki as software is exactly what I need as I figure
out what it's supposed to look like. Search is ridiculously important, but
I think I actually need to finds ways that are specifically tailored to the
structures I have built. I will think more about your question.
@DemoniWaari also mentioned this search-functionality. I think I'll add the
quick-search by keyboard function and then we can discuss the content of
the search results...

Thanks for your feedback and thoughts!

BTC
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h0p3
2018-08-06 16:27:53 UTC
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I actually want to go further with this keyboard-centered approach. There's
the sidebar that can be made key-boardable, too... basically everything
that forces me to use my mouse where under i3 I'd always just press a
shortcut is a target for select-mode.

I think you're right that something like this should be in TW's codebase.

Agreed! We've talked about the sidebar before. I have very strong opinions
about the sidebar.

I know how I would like to navigate my sidebar right now (although, I'd
probably change my method with more complex tooling), but I fear I am too
specific (and don't know how to generalize it for everyone's usecases).

I want to use a hotkey to enter "sidebar mode," select tabs from hotkeys,
and perhaps have a mode for each tab. For example, on my Hub (
https://philosopher.life/#Hub:Hub), I want to step up and down through the
major sections, and then select from the links inside those lists.

As far as I'm concerned, the sidebar is fundamental to navigating the wiki,
and salient navigation of complex structures is what a wiki is all about.
Keyboard control of it is necessary to allow me to "load" tiddlers into my
story river.

I tried that nodejs-approach but the missing live-reload killed it for me.

YES! There are a lot of problems surrounding it.

To me, this is the one of the key areas in which Tiddlywiki could make a
quantum leap. The browser's VM continues to be tightened again and again,
and running a server is literally the only option around it. Unfortunately,
I believe it's computationally unoptimized. I blow a whole core just to
recompile every minute with nodejs. JS makes this beautiful in the browser,
but the server itself needs another language, imho.

I'd want edit priority given to the CLI.

This is no small task though, and I think most people have no use for it
(at least initially).

@DemoniWaari also mentioned this search-functionality. I think I'll add the
quick-search by keyboard function and then we can discuss the content of
the search results...

Thanks for your feedback and thoughts!

I am very excited by this. I think it is actually an entirely different
problem than keyboard navigation, and arguably an even larger problem. It
would, of course, be an enormous contribution. Advanced search that a user
can easily tailor to the structures they build in their own wiki is
necessary. This is where the flexibility of Tiddlywiki may continue to
shine for a long time to come.
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TonyM
2018-08-07 00:35:28 UTC
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Folks,

I know you are discussing keyboard access to search here but I just wanted
to comment that "search" is increasingly being used as a fundamental tool
within environments, whilst we have the search operator and filters, even
regex in tiddlywiki and or its plugins it is not very mature from a usage
perspective. If one is reporting, or even listing content in your wikis
design search can be a powerful solution and in my view we have not yet
explored that far enough. Search can make navigation easier (its common
use) but it can also simplify dealing with sets of data and even defining
the content of sets we later process further.

Of course we must also be careful not to rely on search so much that we
diminish the value of structured and tagged data handling.

Part of improving search is to make its use much more easily accessible,
and reusable such as searches with saved filters opening or reducing the
scope of the search.

Regards
Tony
Post by BurningTreeC
@DemoniWaari also mentioned this search-functionality. I think I'll add
the quick-search by keyboard function and then we can discuss the content
of the search results...
Thanks for your feedback and thoughts!
I am very excited by this. I think it is actually an entirely different
problem than keyboard navigation, and arguably an even larger problem. It
would, of course, be an enormous contribution. Advanced search that a user
can easily tailor to the structures they build in their own wiki is
necessary. This is where the flexibility of Tiddlywiki may continue to
shine for a long time to come.
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-11 10:48:04 UTC
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Hi, I'm back with some updates on this front:

I'm splitting SelectMode into "Story" and "Sidebar" Modes.
It can already be tested on selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
The new sidebar mode lets you cycle through the sidebar tabs and enables
specific actions for the currently open tab. At the moment only the
"Recent" tab has actions defined (selecting a tiddler from the list and
opening it in the story river) - but I'll add actions for the other tabs,
too

Activate sidebar-mode using "alt-Right" or "alt-Backquote" (which is
alt-Odiaeresis on my german keyboard)
In sidebar-mode, use "T" to cycle through the tabs
In the recent tab, use "J" or "Left" to select the tiddler above the
selected one and "Backquote" or "Right" to select the one after the
currently selected one. "Enter" opens the selected tiddler.
Note that those shortcuts are only enabled when the "Recent" tab is
selected, which allows for using the same keys for the different tabs, but
with different actions.

BTC
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Mohammad
2018-08-11 12:07:03 UTC
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Hello BTC,
Is there any update or change in original KeeBoord! I use it in some
application!
I appreciate if you let me know if I KeeBoord will be available in
standalone mode!

/Mohammad
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-12 04:15:02 UTC
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Post by Mohammad
Hello BTC,
Is there any update or change in original KeeBoord! I use it in some
application!
I appreciate if you let me know if I KeeBoord will be available in
standalone mode!
/Mohammad
Hi Mohammad, in the KeeBoord functionality itself only a small part has
changed. It's not updated on the KeeBoord plugin page and on SelectMode
neither.
I want to move it to a github page because I keep forgetting my older
tiddlyspot passwords. So KeeBoord will move to a github page I think, and
SelectMode, too.
KeeBoord already is a standalone plugin.

For SelectMode I've changed some tiddlywiki shadow tiddlers that I had
already changed for KeeBoord. The changes are for refreshing the keyboard
widget in certain cases (when text-editor key combinations change for
example),
changes on the link widget, so that navigating the sidebar lists with the
keyboard scrolls the view, and some other tweaks.

BTC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-12 12:45:22 UTC
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A small note on my chosen Shortcuts:

I've discovered that on Chrome the Button right beneath "L" gets recognized
as "Backquote" - on Firefox (latest) it is "FirefoxSemicolon" or something
like that
I'm using "J" and "Backquote" to go next/previous like I'm used from my
desktop's window manager (i3/sway). On selectmode.tiddlyspot.com you can
change those shortcuts in the ControlPanel so that they fit your browser's
idea of the correct name for your keys :P

Have a good day, BTC
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h0p3
2018-08-16 13:25:57 UTC
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Those popups are neat. I'm not sure how I'm going to use them yet.
Post by BurningTreeC
I've discovered that on Chrome the Button right beneath "L" gets
recognized as "Backquote" - on Firefox (latest) it is "FirefoxSemicolon" or
something like that
I'm using "J" and "Backquote" to go next/previous like I'm used from my
desktop's window manager (i3/sway). On selectmode.tiddlyspot.com you can
change those shortcuts in the ControlPanel so that they fit your browser's
idea of the correct name for your keys :P
Have a good day, BTC
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Mohammad
2018-08-12 17:15:38 UTC
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Thank you BTC,
Please inform here us when you uploaded the last version of KeeBoord
plugin to github.

Best

-Mohammad
Post by Mohammad
Hello BTC,
Post by Mohammad
Is there any update or change in original KeeBoord! I use it in some
application!
I appreciate if you let me know if I KeeBoord will be available in
standalone mode!
/Mohammad
Hi Mohammad, in the KeeBoord functionality itself only a small part has
changed. It's not updated on the KeeBoord plugin page and on SelectMode
neither.
I want to move it to a github page because I keep forgetting my older
tiddlyspot passwords. So KeeBoord will move to a github page I think, and
SelectMode, too.
KeeBoord already is a standalone plugin.
For SelectMode I've changed some tiddlywiki shadow tiddlers that I had
already changed for KeeBoord. The changes are for refreshing the keyboard
widget in certain cases (when text-editor key combinations change for
example),
changes on the link widget, so that navigating the sidebar lists with the
keyboard scrolls the view, and some other tweaks.
BTC
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-05 12:59:46 UTC
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That is extremely good piece of work. Really good.

I tested on FF 52 & 60, latest Chrome on Windows 7. All behave the same.

My initial comments ...

-- Would not Up-Arrow and Down-Arrow better fit story navigation than
Left-Arrow and Right-Arrow? The story river is generally considered
VERTICAL, not horizontal.

-- Regarding signalling you are in "S mode" / "KN mode." For me the
HIGHLIGHT of the border of the selected Tiddler does it already. I don't
need the colour bars and they add cruft I do not think is needed. I think
if you make the highlight border a bit stronger, or with, say, a drop
shadow it would communicate visually well-enough. Also, perhaps, there
could be a simple capital "S" that appears on the right sidebar when you in
that mode. With a red slash through it when off? Maybe it could also be a
toggle to switch it on and off? Just a thought.

-- The Help at bottom is good. Once you learned it you don't need to see it
again. Can it be switchable off?

-- When you create or edit a Tiddler you lose "S mode" / "KN mode." Not
sure, but is that preventable? It would be nice to stay in it.

Best wishes for a great tool
Josiah
Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon
be available for drag&drop installation
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the
tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
all the best,
BurningTreeC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-05 13:14:23 UTC
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Post by @TiddlyTweeter
That is extremely good piece of work. Really good.
I tested on FF 52 & 60, latest Chrome on Windows 7. All behave the same.
My initial comments ...
-- Would not Up-Arrow and Down-Arrow better fit story navigation than
Left-Arrow and Right-Arrow? The story river is generally considered
VERTICAL, not horizontal.
That's everyones' own preference - you can change all shortcuts how you
like. They're not hardcoded. Currently there are only some shortcut-info
tiddlers missing so that the shortcuts don't show up in the controlpanel
for modification. But you can alternativelly just edit the corresponding
$:/config/shortcuts/shortcut-name tiddler.
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
-- Regarding signalling you are in "S mode" / "KN mode." For me the
HIGHLIGHT of the border of the selected Tiddler does it already. I don't
need the colour bars and they add cruft I do not think is needed. I think
if you make the highlight border a bit stronger, or with, say, a drop
shadow it would communicate visually well-enough. Also, perhaps, there
could be a simple capital "S" that appears on the right sidebar when you in
that mode. With a red slash through it when off? Maybe it could also be a
toggle to switch it on and off? Just a thought.
What's KNmode? :)
How about a simple "S" or "SELECT MODE" in the top right bar (beneath the
sidebar button) with some highlighting background? I'll maybe make more
options and make them configurable, too
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
-- The Help at bottom is good. Once you learned it you don't need to see
it again. Can it be switchable off?
It's already on/off switchable, see the SelectMode Intro tiddler at the
bottom
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
-- When you create or edit a Tiddler you lose "S mode" / "KN mode." Not
sure, but is that preventable? It would be nice to stay in it.
There's some background: the "E" shortcut for editing works within the
text-editor, too. If you type a word that contains "e", it wouldn't insert
the letter but trigger the shortcut. That's why I disable SelectMode when I
edit a tiddler.
The question if global shortcuts should work within the editor or not is a
different one. I would expect global shortcuts to work anywhere. I could
however modify KeeBoord so that it only triggers shortcuts if we're not
within an editor or input field. But the amount of such fields is very high
within tw so I wonder how often users then have to click outside those
fields so that they loose focus, just to trigger a keyboard shortcut.
That's somehow contra-productive
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
Best wishes for a great tool
Josiah
Thanks Josiah, very helpful feedback!

BTC
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-05 16:10:18 UTC
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TT ... -- When you create or edit a Tiddler you lose "S mode" / "KN mode."
Not sure, but is that preventable? It would be nice to stay in it.
There's some background: the "E" shortcut for editing works within the
text-editor, too. If you type a word that contains "e", it wouldn't insert
the letter but trigger the shortcut. That's why I disable SelectMode when I
edit a tiddler.
Of course! I should have realised that in edit-mode there would be a
conflict. My bad for not thinking it through!
... I could however modify KeeBoord so that it only triggers shortcuts if
we're not within an editor or input field. But the amount of such fields is
very high within tw so I wonder how often users then have to click outside
those fields so that they loose focus, just to trigger a keyboard shortcut.
That's somehow contra-productive
I agree. Being able to get back to "S mode" after an edit is easy anyway.
So likely better not to makre it over complicated?

FYI, small observation. I opened three Tiddlers to edit. I then clicked
alt+s. Typed into one of them the word "the". You get to "th" and it bails
out and loses focus and "S mode" goes off. It seems resilient & behaves
well.

Worth noting, if you had a case of, say, one tiddler open for editing and a
load of others in view mode you could STILL navigate around with keys
UNTIL you started an actual edit in the opened editor. So "S mode" is NOT
incompatible with having Tiddlers open for edit, merely it switches off
once you actually start editing.

Best wishes
Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-05 16:12:44 UTC
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BTC: What's KNmode? :)
Keyboard Navigation mode :-)
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-05 16:17:08 UTC
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BTC: How about a simple "S" or "SELECT MODE" in the top right bar (beneath
the sidebar button) with some highlighting background? I'll maybe make more
options and make them configurable, too
Simple "S" sounds good at that position. Pretty sure that will work well
enough as an indicator.

Best wishes
Josiah
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DemoniWaari
2018-08-06 10:00:36 UTC
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Looks really nice, can't wait to get the tag selection stuff.

Couple of things: How about making a shortcut for the search bar? Would be
great to ctrl+f, type my stuff, tab tab enter, my tiddler pops up, press e
and get straight to editing it. Also would it be hard to get re-ordering of
a selected tiddler? So if I have three tiddlers tid1 tid2 and tid3 in that
order and I select tid3 and press a shortcut (e.g. shift up) and then the
order would be tid1 tid3 tid2 and then selecting tid1 and pressing e.g.
shift down would then give me order of tid3 tid1 tid2.

I think that the visualization that preople have here been talking about
sounds good, though for me a simple border on my tiddlers (perhaps slightly
more easy to see, red border maybe?) is enough.
Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon
be available for drag&drop installation
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the
tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
all the best,
BurningTreeC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-06 12:01:51 UTC
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Post by DemoniWaari
Looks really nice, can't wait to get the tag selection stuff.
Couple of things: How about making a shortcut for the search bar? Would be
great to ctrl+f, type my stuff, tab tab enter, my tiddler pops up, press e
and get straight to editing it. Also would it be hard to get re-ordering of
a selected tiddler? So if I have three tiddlers tid1 tid2 and tid3 in that
order and I select tid3 and press a shortcut (e.g. shift up) and then the
order would be tid1 tid3 tid2 and then selecting tid1 and pressing e.g.
shift down would then give me order of tid3 tid1 tid2.
The shortcut for the search-bar is not that difficult, you can try it on
keeboord.tiddlyspot.com (shortcut: alt-S). Selecting the dropdown items
then would need to use the same mechanism as selecting the tags in the
tags-dropdown. I'm working on that and will probably also add this
search-functionality.

You already can move tiddlers one slot next, one slot previous. Look at the
shortcut at the selectmode page ($:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-movenext
and $:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-moveprevious)
Post by DemoniWaari
I think that the visualization that preople have here been talking about
sounds good, though for me a simple border on my tiddlers (perhaps slightly
more easy to see, red border maybe?) is enough.
Hm.. will be difficult to find something that everyone likes, that's why I
just use 1px solid black and users can change it how they want. I'll add a
simple how-to, it's easy
Post by DemoniWaari
EDIT: Also noticed that if I press e to edit a tiddler, then ctrl+enter to
save it, I can't get back to select mode with shift-space. I need to click
something (a tiddler for instance) and only then I can get back to select
mode with shift-space.
Thanks for reporting, I tried on Linux with Chrome, TiddlyDesktop and
Firefox latest and couldn't reproduce this. What's your operating system
and browser?

BTC
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DemoniWaari
2018-08-06 13:31:17 UTC
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You already can move tiddlers one slot next, one slot previous. Look at the
Post by BurningTreeC
shortcut at the selectmode page ($:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-movenext
and $:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-moveprevious)
Oh I missed that! Works great.
Post by BurningTreeC
Post by DemoniWaari
EDIT: Also noticed that if I press e to edit a tiddler, then ctrl+enter
to save it, I can't get back to select mode with shift-space. I need to
click something (a tiddler for instance) and only then I can get back to
select mode with shift-space.
Thanks for reporting, I tried on Linux with Chrome, TiddlyDesktop and
Firefox latest and couldn't reproduce this. What's your operating system
and browser?
I'm using Firefox 52.9.0 under Windows 7.
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@TiddlyTweeter
2018-08-06 12:47:22 UTC
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Ciao BTC

A quick point that came to me reading over the latest posts.

Just my opinion, but would "K" (for keyboard / keys) be better than "S"
(for select)?

I don't think it ultimately matters much, but IMO this is stuff I do via
the Keyboard. "Select" is broader. A select to me is an item I could select
(option), or highlighting text (for copy).

Just a thought
Josiah
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h0p3
2018-08-18 18:49:40 UTC
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I know you are still working on this gorgeous tool and the infrastructure
for developing and distributing it. I have tested the tool on your demo
several times. I gratefully request this with no expectations: I would like
to get a feel for it on my own wiki and actually begin using it in
production to develop more opinions about it. It might be a while before I
get to do that I realize. Unfortunately, I don't know how to insert this
into my wiki (although, I have tried a couple times). When you are ready,
would you give me a set of instructions to insert this into my wiki (I'd
like to be able to remove or modify it as this plugin develops)? It doesn't
need to be a single drag and drop plugin; I'll work with whatever
instructions you can give me.
Post by BurningTreeC
Hi community,
for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
tiddlywiki I've created
http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon
be available for drag&drop installation
Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
help.
I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the
tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
all the best,
BurningTreeC
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BurningTreeC
2018-08-18 19:23:40 UTC
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Post by h0p3
I know you are still working on this gorgeous tool and the infrastructure
for developing and distributing it. I have tested the tool on your demo
several times. I gratefully request this with no expectations: I would like
to get a feel for it on my own wiki and actually begin using it in
production to develop more opinions about it. It might be a while before I
get to do that I realize. Unfortunately, I don't know how to insert this
into my wiki (although, I have tried a couple times). If and when you are
ready, would you give me a set of instructions to insert this into my wiki
(I'd like to be able to remove or modify it as this plugin develops)? It
doesn't need to be a single drag and drop plugin; I'll work with whatever
instructions you can give me. Obviously, you owe me nothing, and you can
(and should) just tell me to figure it out for myself (you're already being
generous to let us see your source).
Hi h0p3 and thanks, it's motivating that there's interest in this
functionality.
Currently I'm moving the KeeBoord plugin to a new location:
https://github.com/BurningTreeC/KeeBoord
The SelectMode functionality will also find its place on github.
KeeBoord is almost done and it's a question of days for its first github
release. A dedicated github page for drag&drop installation will follow.

SelectMode has become a bit more complicated to handle. If I'd make it just
for myself it would be easy - I wouldn't consider all the different cases
users may want.
I haven't got that much feedback about it so I'm not that sure if the modes
are worth the work

Anyways, these things are progressing and when I'm ready I'll leave a post
here :)

BTC
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