Discussion:
[tw] Testers needed for TiddlyServer
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-10 12:06:27 UTC
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Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for
nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download one
of the nexe builds.

For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.

Thanks,
Arlen
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'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
2017-10-10 14:05:42 UTC
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Could you explain what "nexe" is about?

Thanks,
Mark
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-10 19:39:09 UTC
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I beg your pardon. If you download the nexe zip for your platform, and
unzip it, then you should be able to go into the dist folder and run the
binary contained in it. It's compiled into one executable instead of being
a bunch of loose javascript files.

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:05 AM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
Post by 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki
Could you explain what "nexe" is about?
Thanks,
Mark
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Jim
2017-10-10 21:16:14 UTC
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This is what I get


<Loading Image...>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zbyAXzUagXY/Wd04WwTd5JI/AAAAAAAAorE/vyMX2s19W0wCy5v87lJt5XJT1Lp0XrZIACLcBGAs/s1600/00348.png>
:
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-10 21:32:14 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for
nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
I get this:


C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>node server
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\src\server.js:186
return server_types_1.obs_stat(state)(favicon).mergeMap(([err,
stat]) => {
^

SyntaxError: Unexpected token [
at exports.runInThisContext (vm.js:53:16)
at Module._compile (module.js:387:25)
at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)
at Module.load (module.js:357:32)
at Function.Module._load (module.js:314:12)
at Module.require (module.js:367:17)
at require (internal/module.js:16:19)
at Object.<anonymous>
(C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\server.js:1:63)
at Module._compile (module.js:413:34)
at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)

C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>pause
Press any key to continue . . .

I downloaded the bundle zip file, extracted it, started with the example
settings.json and cleaned out the comments, added a single alias "books":
"some_path" and ran start.cmd.

Does it matter the version of node installed if it's already installed? Or
will it use the one in the bundle first?

Coda
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-11 02:43:42 UTC
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@Jim, you need to put a settings.json file next to the dist folder
containing the tiddlyserver settings.

@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable.
The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the
confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly.
Post by c***@outlook.com
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>node server
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\src\server.js:186
return server_types_1.obs_stat(state)(favicon).mergeMap(([err,
stat]) => {
^
SyntaxError: Unexpected token [
at exports.runInThisContext (vm.js:53:16)
at Module._compile (module.js:387:25)
at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)
at Module.load (module.js:357:32)
at Function.Module._load (module.js:314:12)
at Module.require (module.js:367:17)
at require (internal/module.js:16:19)
at Object.<anonymous> (C:\DL\TiddlyServer\
TiddlyServer-2.0.7\server.js:1:63)
at Module._compile (module.js:413:34)
at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>pause
Press any key to continue . . .
I downloaded the bundle zip file, extracted it, started with the example
"some_path" and ran start.cmd.
Does it matter the version of node installed if it's already installed? Or
will it use the one in the bundle first?
Coda
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 03:12:28 UTC
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No luck, Arlen...
Post by Arlen Beiler
@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable.
The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the
confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly.
Okay, I downloaded the nexe zip, extracted it, copied the folders from the
unzipped set over the previous unzipped set, ran start.cmd, same error.

Next, I unzipped the nexe zip again (clean), copied the start.cmd and
settings.json from the old set into the nexe set up and got this:


C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>node server
module.js:341
throw err;
^

Error: Cannot find module
'C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\server'
at Function.Module._resolveFilename (module.js:339:15)
at Function.Module._load (module.js:290:25)
at Function.Module.runMain (module.js:447:10)
at startup (node.js:139:18)
at node.js:999:3

C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>pause
Press any key to continue . . .

So, here's where I'm at:

I have Windows 7 with Node version 5.5.0 already installed.

1 - is having node already installed a problem for TS?

2 - Which download and which set of instructions should I follow?

Coda
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-11 03:18:10 UTC
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I'm sorry for the confusion.

- Download TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe-win-64.zip from https://github.com/
Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7
<https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7>
- Unzip to your desired location.
- Copy your settings.json inside the folder you just unzipped, next to
the dist, assets, and tiddlywiki folders.
- Open the dist folder, and double-click on server.exe

Don't worry about start.bat, it isn't needed in this case.

If something is not clear, please ask. I am sorry that I am not so clear
the first time around.

Thanks, Arlen
Post by c***@outlook.com
No luck, Arlen...
Post by Arlen Beiler
@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable.
The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the
confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly.
Okay, I downloaded the nexe zip, extracted it, copied the folders from the
unzipped set over the previous unzipped set, ran start.cmd, same error.
Next, I unzipped the nexe zip again (clean), copied the start.cmd and
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>node server
module.js:341
throw err;
^
Error: Cannot find module 'C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServ
er-2.0.7-nexe\server'
at Function.Module._resolveFilename (module.js:339:15)
at Function.Module._load (module.js:290:25)
at Function.Module.runMain (module.js:447:10)
at startup (node.js:139:18)
at node.js:999:3
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>pause
Press any key to continue . . .
I have Windows 7 with Node version 5.5.0 already installed.
1 - is having node already installed a problem for TS?
2 - Which download and which set of instructions should I follow?
Coda
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 03:24:25 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
I'm sorry for the confusion.
- Download TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe-win-64.zip from
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7
- Unzip to your desired location.
- Copy your settings.json inside the folder you just unzipped, next to
the dist, assets, and tiddlywiki folders.
- Open the dist folder, and double-click on server.exe
Bingo.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Don't worry about start.bat, it isn't needed in this case.
If something is not clear, please ask. I am sorry that I am not so clear
the first time around.
I'll play with it more tomorrow.

THANKS!
Coda
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Jim
2017-10-11 16:55:43 UTC
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Ah thanks - this works for me after getting the settings file in the right
place. My suggestions would be to just include a working settings file
pointed at the User's home folder. If the user then wants advanced
settings, they can go read the docs. Thanks.
Post by Arlen Beiler
I'm sorry for the confusion.
- Download TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe-win-64.zip from
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7
- Unzip to your desired location.
- Copy your settings.json inside the folder you just unzipped, next to
the dist, assets, and tiddlywiki folders.
- Open the dist folder, and double-click on server.exe
Don't worry about start.bat, it isn't needed in this case.
If something is not clear, please ask. I am sorry that I am not so clear
the first time around.
Thanks, Arlen
Post by c***@outlook.com
No luck, Arlen...
Post by Arlen Beiler
@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable.
The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the
confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly.
Okay, I downloaded the nexe zip, extracted it, copied the folders from
the unzipped set over the previous unzipped set, ran start.cmd, same error.
Next, I unzipped the nexe zip again (clean), copied the start.cmd and
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>node server
module.js:341
throw err;
^
Error: Cannot find module
'C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\server'
at Function.Module._resolveFilename (module.js:339:15)
at Function.Module._load (module.js:290:25)
at Function.Module.runMain (module.js:447:10)
at startup (node.js:139:18)
at node.js:999:3
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>pause
Press any key to continue . . .
I have Windows 7 with Node version 5.5.0 already installed.
1 - is having node already installed a problem for TS?
2 - Which download and which set of instructions should I follow?
Coda
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Jim
2017-10-11 16:13:35 UTC
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Maybe that should be added to the instructions.
Post by Arlen Beiler
@Jim, you need to put a settings.json file next to the dist folder
containing the tiddlyserver settings.
@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable.
The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the
confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly.
Post by c***@outlook.com
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>node server
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\src\server.js:186
return server_types_1.obs_stat(state)(favicon).mergeMap(([err,
stat]) => {
^
SyntaxError: Unexpected token [
at exports.runInThisContext (vm.js:53:16)
at Module._compile (module.js:387:25)
at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)
at Module.load (module.js:357:32)
at Function.Module._load (module.js:314:12)
at Module.require (module.js:367:17)
at require (internal/module.js:16:19)
at Object.<anonymous>
(C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\server.js:1:63)
at Module._compile (module.js:413:34)
at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>pause
Press any key to continue . . .
I downloaded the bundle zip file, extracted it, started with the example
"some_path" and ran start.cmd.
Does it matter the version of node installed if it's already installed?
Or will it use the one in the bundle first?
Coda
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 15:03:38 UTC
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Hi Arlen,

I've tried it this morning and all seemed to go well for a while then
errors started to occur when saves are made.

1 - An alert pops up with XMLHttpRequest error code: 412

2 - Then a Red Internal JS Error TypeError: xhr is undefined

3 - The console says XML Parsing Error: no root element found Location:
http://127.0.0.1:8080/books/testwiki.html Line Number 1, Column 1:

4 - Followed by TypeError: xhr is undefined

Nothing is mentioned in the server console, just the regular PUT statement.

If I close the testwiki and reopen, it starts working again (until it
eventually fails again).

Coda
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for
nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-11 15:32:10 UTC
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The 412 is thrown if the server thinks the client is working from a stale
copy. Is it somehow possible that another application updated the html file
on disk? Especially if you can do several saves and then start getting the
error. The other errors are a little puzzling, but I think might involve an
unrelated bug in TiddlyWiki (
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/2989).
Post by c***@outlook.com
Hi Arlen,
I've tried it this morning and all seemed to go well for a while then
errors started to occur when saves are made.
1 - An alert pops up with XMLHttpRequest error code: 412
2 - Then a Red Internal JS Error TypeError: xhr is undefined
4 - Followed by TypeError: xhr is undefined
Nothing is mentioned in the server console, just the regular PUT statement.
If I close the testwiki and reopen, it starts working again (until it
eventually fails again).
Coda
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 16:00:31 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
The 412 is thrown if the server thinks the client is working from a stale
copy. Is it somehow possible that another application updated the html file
on disk?
No, single copy open in the browser. Note that they occur from autosaves
(closing an edited tiddler, for example) not manual saves by clicking the
save icon.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Especially if you can do several saves and then start getting the error.
Right. And once I have the errors appear, there is no way back except to
close and reopen the TW.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The other errors are a little puzzling, but I think might involve an
unrelated bug in TiddlyWiki (
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/2989).
Note that error #1 appears first while error #3 appears in the console.
When the dialog in #1 is cleared, #2 appears in the UI and #4 appears in
the console. IOW, it's a sequence that always repeats. And once it has
occurred, clicking the TW save icon will repeat the whole thing again.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Post by c***@outlook.com
Hi Arlen,
I've tried it this morning and all seemed to go well for a while then
errors started to occur when saves are made.
1 - An alert pops up with XMLHttpRequest error code: 412
2 - Then a Red Internal JS Error TypeError: xhr is undefined
4 - Followed by TypeError: xhr is undefined
Nothing is mentioned in the server console, just the regular PUT statement.
If I close the testwiki and reopen, it starts working again (until it
eventually fails again).
Coda
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-11 18:07:07 UTC
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So even after you start getting the error it will still manually save
without errors? And when you say save, do you mean it saves to the server?
Or does the manual download saver kick in?

Or do you mean that the error only starts occurring when using autosave?

What version is your TiddlyWiki file? This can be found on the control
panel.

Is anyone else getting this error?

Also, could you paste in the entire logs from the TiddlyServer terminal
window?

Thanks, Arlen
Post by c***@outlook.com
Post by Arlen Beiler
The 412 is thrown if the server thinks the client is working from a stale
copy. Is it somehow possible that another application updated the html file
on disk?
No, single copy open in the browser. Note that they occur from autosaves
(closing an edited tiddler, for example) not manual saves by clicking the
save icon.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Especially if you can do several saves and then start getting the error.
Right. And once I have the errors appear, there is no way back except to
close and reopen the TW.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The other errors are a little puzzling, but I think might involve an
unrelated bug in TiddlyWiki (https://github.com/Jermolene/
TiddlyWiki5/issues/2989).
Note that error #1 appears first while error #3 appears in the console.
When the dialog in #1 is cleared, #2 appears in the UI and #4 appears in
the console. IOW, it's a sequence that always repeats. And once it has
occurred, clicking the TW save icon will repeat the whole thing again.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Post by c***@outlook.com
Hi Arlen,
I've tried it this morning and all seemed to go well for a while then
errors started to occur when saves are made.
1 - An alert pops up with XMLHttpRequest error code: 412
2 - Then a Red Internal JS Error TypeError: xhr is undefined
4 - Followed by TypeError: xhr is undefined
Nothing is mentioned in the server console, just the regular PUT statement.
If I close the testwiki and reopen, it starts working again (until it
eventually fails again).
Coda
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and
download one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 18:19:01 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
So even after you start getting the error it will still manually save
without errors?
No. Once I've seen the error, the only cure is to close the TW and reopen
it.
Post by Arlen Beiler
And when you say save, do you mean it saves to the server?
Yes, regular saving.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Or does the manual download saver kick in?
No. If I try to save AFTER seeing the error, I get the error again. It
DOES NOT save.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Or do you mean that the error only starts occurring when using autosave?
That's hard to say. I rarely save manually so I have only seen the error
appear under regular autosave conditions.
Post by Arlen Beiler
What version is your TiddlyWiki file?
5.1.14
Post by Arlen Beiler
Also, could you paste in the entire logs from the TiddlyServer terminal
window?
It's gone now -- I had to return to my old system (using tiddlyfox). I can
assure you, the server window only contained regular PUT statements which
suggests to me, the server "thinks" it has saved the wiki (but clearly
hasn't since it responded with a 412). Which preconditions are you
setting/checking? If-Unmodified-Since? Anything else?

I may be able to retry TS properly later.

Coda
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Anders Jonsson
2017-10-11 19:21:54 UTC
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I will chime in to say that I’ve also had plenty of this 412/RSOD problem (and I’m relying on equal measures of manual saves and autosaves; win10, FF56, TW5.1.14)...

1. White box stating ”Error while saving: XMLHttpRequest error code: 412”
2. The big, red ”embarrasment” box stating ”TypeError: xhr is undefined”
(3. In the TiddlyServer window the 412 code is given for the last PUT)
4. Generally no saving possible afterwards without reloading the tiddlywiki (thereby losing any changes since last successful save), but sometimes I’ve found that the problem ”goes away” by itself after me waiting a while, meaning that I can once again start saving normally without having to reload...

Regards
//Anders
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 19:32:38 UTC
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Post by Anders Jonsson
I will chime in to say that I’ve also had plenty of this 412/RSOD problem
(and I’m relying on equal measures of manual saves and autosaves; win10,
FF56, TW5.1.14)...
1. White box stating ”Error while saving: XMLHttpRequest error code: 412”
2. The big, red ”embarrasment” box stating ”TypeError: xhr is undefined”
(3. In the TiddlyServer window the 412 code is given for the last PUT)
4. Generally no saving possible afterwards without reloading the
tiddlywiki (thereby losing any changes since last successful save), but
sometimes I’ve found that the problem ”goes away” by itself after me
waiting a while, meaning that I can once again start saving normally
without having to reload...
Apart from the message posted to the server window, that's identical to my
system. One thing I did wonder... my wikis are on an external drive.
Yours?
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Anders Jonsson
2017-10-11 19:59:26 UTC
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I keep my TWs on an internal drive.

But that reminds me that I have them stored in my Dropbox folder, and wondering if the Dropbox-syncing might affect things? (Guessing blindly, me knowing next to nothing about the ”under the hood network stuff”...)

//Anders
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 20:09:46 UTC
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You can discount the dropbox theory, not in play here.

I'm intrigued by your point #4 though. How long do you typically wait for
the problem to magically "go away"?
Post by Anders Jonsson
I keep my TWs on an internal drive.
But that reminds me that I have them stored in my Dropbox folder, and
wondering if the Dropbox-syncing might affect things? (Guessing blindly, me
knowing next to nothing about the ”under the hood network stuff”...)
//Anders
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Jim
2017-10-11 20:14:29 UTC
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Yes, I believe this an issue I had when trying tiddly server initially.
Google drive is worse for creating this issue than Dropbox. If you wait
until Dropbox says it is done syncing, you can save again with no errors.
The bigger your wiki, the longer it takes Dropbox to upload it.

On a side note, I quit using Google drive sync altogether because it
appeared to permanently change file permissions to read-only and I had to
go in and manually reset it in order to save.
Post by Anders Jonsson
I keep my TWs on an internal drive.
But that reminds me that I have them stored in my Dropbox folder, and
wondering if the Dropbox-syncing might affect things? (Guessing blindly, me
knowing next to nothing about the ”under the hood network stuff”...)
//Anders
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-11 21:08:09 UTC
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The reason I asked about the terminal output is because the line that
specifies the put request also specifies the response that the server
returned, which in this case should be 412.

The server does not think it's saved if it returns a 412. It is telling the
client that it could not save because the file was newer than what the
client had specified.

Under the hood, it uses the modified time of the file to check whether the
file was changed since the client loaded it. Every time the client sends a
new version to the server the server sends the new timestamp back to the
client which the client then sends on the next save. If nothing else
changed the file in the meantime, the timestamp will still be identical.

One more question, what version of node are you both using, or are you
using the nexe version that I posted at the top of this thread?
Post by Jim
Yes, I believe this an issue I had when trying tiddly server initially.
Google drive is worse for creating this issue than Dropbox. If you wait
until Dropbox says it is done syncing, you can save again with no errors.
The bigger your wiki, the longer it takes Dropbox to upload it.
On a side note, I quit using Google drive sync altogether because it
appeared to permanently change file permissions to read-only and I had to
go in and manually reset it in order to save.
Post by Anders Jonsson
I keep my TWs on an internal drive.
But that reminds me that I have them stored in my Dropbox folder, and
wondering if the Dropbox-syncing might affect things? (Guessing blindly, me
knowing next to nothing about the ”under the hood network stuff”...)
//Anders
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 21:14:13 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
The reason I asked about the terminal output is because the line that
specifies the put request also specifies the response that the server
returned, which in this case should be 412.
I'll pay closer attention when I try it again.
Post by Arlen Beiler
One more question, what version of node are you both using, or are you
using the nexe version that I posted at the top of this thread?
I asked you that a couple of times. I have Node 5.5.0 installed but I
would guess yours is being used (I guess it's "in" the nexe build, right?)
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-11 21:32:06 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
The reason I asked about the terminal output is because the line that
specifies the put request also specifies the response that the server
returned, which in this case should be 412.
Yep, here it is:

Settings file: C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\settings.json
Open your browser and type in one of the following:
127.0.0.1:8080
[2017-10-11T16:22:35.406-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 854.115 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:22:59.737-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 146.147 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:02.356-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 143.149 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:03.996-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 144.009 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:05.605-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 146.161 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:06.878-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 155.558 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:08.573-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 168.605 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:53.250-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 144.057 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:24:00.915-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 144.234 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:24:40.083-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 143.304 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:25:38.675-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 412 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 1.528 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:26:05.757-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 412 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 0.654 ms - -


I also got this on the very first attempt. I restarted and didn't see it
again:

[2017-10-11T16:18:20.981-0500] OPTIONS 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 1.254 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:18:33.329-0500] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/books/testwiki
.html 153.159 ms - -
TypeError: Cannot read property 'length' of undefined
at Function.morgan.token [as local-addr]
(C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\d
ist\server.exe:1598:37)
at eval (eval at compile
(C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:3
181:10), <anonymous>:7:26)
at developmentFormatLine
(C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:1
632:9)
at Array.logRequest
(C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2912:1
8)
at listener (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2688:17)
at onFinish (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2619:7)
at callback (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2475:12)
at Socket.onevent
(C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2513:7)
at emitOne (events.js:101:20)
at Socket.emit (events.js:188:7)
at emitErrorNT (net.js:1277:8)
at _combinedTickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:80:11)
at process._tickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:104:9)
caught process uncaughtException
closing server
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-12 03:03:26 UTC
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Thank you all for your input. I will check into these things and hopefully
figure something out. I don't know what is causing the 412 error, but it is
considered a safeguard to make sure a stale copy does not get saved to the
server.

Yes, the nexe zip contains its own version of node, I should have directed
my question more specifically to Anders. If you use the nexe zip, it should
not matter what version of node you have installed.

I cannot see a reason that a 412 would suddenly start happening unless
perhaps if two saves happened too close to each other, but the normal
autosave mechanism doesn't seem to work like that. But I'll check into it.
I have a couple ideas.

If it was happening to me the first thing would be to pause Dropbox. But I
use Dropbox all the time for this stuff. And I never run into trouble with
it.

Thanks,
Arlen
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c***@outlook.com
2017-10-12 03:17:23 UTC
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If you use the nexe zip, it should not matter what version of node you
have installed.
Good.
I cannot see a reason that a 412 would suddenly start happening unless
perhaps if two saves happened too close to each other, but the normal
autosave mechanism doesn't seem to work like that.
Agreed. I did try again, and on one of the tests, the second manual save
brought the error up. The file had only been open a matter of seconds.
All other instances took much longer and, as I said before, happens during
autosave.
But I'll check into it. I have a couple ideas.
If it was happening to me the first thing would be to pause Dropbox. But I
use Dropbox all the time for this stuff. And I never run into trouble with
it.
Dropbox is not in my setup, but Ander's stores his files in his dropbox
folder.
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-19 11:42:05 UTC
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@coda and @jim, have you used the bundled version of TiddlyServer before
and did it also have this problem for you?

Thanks
Arlen
Post by c***@outlook.com
If you use the nexe zip, it should not matter what version of node you
have installed.
Good.
I cannot see a reason that a 412 would suddenly start happening unless
perhaps if two saves happened too close to each other, but the normal
autosave mechanism doesn't seem to work like that.
Agreed. I did try again, and on one of the tests, the second manual save
brought the error up. The file had only been open a matter of seconds.
All other instances took much longer and, as I said before, happens during
autosave.
But I'll check into it. I have a couple ideas.
If it was happening to me the first thing would be to pause Dropbox. But
I use Dropbox all the time for this stuff. And I never run into trouble
with it.
Dropbox is not in my setup, but Ander's stores his files in his dropbox
folder.
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coda coder
2017-10-19 11:49:12 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
@coda and @jim, have you used the bundled version of TiddlyServer before
and did it also have this problem for you?
I have never used TS before - this was my first time.

Any progress, Arlen?
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-19 12:45:48 UTC
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The best that I can figure is that it is some kind of problem on the file
system. But I don't know which of two problems it is. Either it is because
of the inode, or because of the modified time.

I made a new release which will give more info about the 412 error in the
node console when it happens. You can download it from here:
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.8

Use the TiddlyServer-2.0.8-nexe zips. As always, when upgrading, unzip the
folder and copy the settings.json file into it rather than copying the
files into your old folder.

Arlen
Post by coda coder
Post by Arlen Beiler
@coda and @jim, have you used the bundled version of TiddlyServer before
and did it also have this problem for you?
I have never used TS before - this was my first time.
Any progress, Arlen?
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jwd
2017-10-21 22:36:05 UTC
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I am not following this whole thread so please excuse if this has been
discussed and eliminated as a possibility.

Another set of applications running on many peoples' computers that they
tend to forget about are virus and other malware detection software. One of
the ways those work is by watching for disk write activity. When those apps
notice disk writes occurring - as a result of saving an attachment from
your email, but also TiddlyServer updating disk contents, and prior to them
getting locked down, browsers writing TiddlyWiki files to disk - those apps
will then scan the files just written to see if some malware has been
deposited. Unless users exclude their Tiddlywiki files from those scans
that can sometimes cause issues that are mysterious to diagnose.

I am speculating that those 412 errors may be caused by a virus scanner
having those just-updated files locked while they are checked for bad
stuff; and doing that repeatedly.
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coda coder
2017-10-21 23:33:49 UTC
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Wow - good idea, jwd. Slapping my head here for not having thought of it
myself.

This is a Win7 box and I only use MSE on it. I'll cover that possibility
when I next test.

@Arlen. I'll try the new release tomorrow (Sunday) sometime.
Post by jwd
I am not following this whole thread so please excuse if this has been
discussed and eliminated as a possibility.
Another set of applications running on many peoples' computers that they
tend to forget about are virus and other malware detection software. One of
the ways those work is by watching for disk write activity. When those apps
notice disk writes occurring - as a result of saving an attachment from
your email, but also TiddlyServer updating disk contents, and prior to them
getting locked down, browsers writing TiddlyWiki files to disk - those apps
will then scan the files just written to see if some malware has been
deposited. Unless users exclude their Tiddlywiki files from those scans
that can sometimes cause issues that are mysterious to diagnose.
I am speculating that those 412 errors may be caused by a virus scanner
having those just-updated files locked while they are checked for bad
stuff; and doing that repeatedly.
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Anders Jonsson
2017-10-23 06:39:41 UTC
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Hi!

Using the 2.0.8-nexe I get the following message when the 412 error occurs
(which for me is after something like 40-50 auto-saves):

412 ifmatch "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737720000"
412 etag "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737721000"
412 caused by difference in modified

(Regarding antivirus programs I get the error with "normal" settings, but
so far I haven't been able to produce this error when _testing_ with
"real-time protection" completely turned off...)

//Anders
Post by Arlen Beiler
The best that I can figure is that it is some kind of problem on the file
system. But I don't know which of two problems it is. Either it is because
of the inode, or because of the modified time.
I made a new release which will give more info about the 412 error in the
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.8
Use the TiddlyServer-2.0.8-nexe zips. As always, when upgrading, unzip the
folder and copy the settings.json file into it rather than copying the
files into your old folder.
Arlen
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-24 02:11:47 UTC
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Thank you.

I could calculate the file hash and use that as the Etag, but I would need
to read the file once (in chunks) to calculate the hash, and then again to
send it to the client. Or I could store the entire file in memory after
calculating the hash, and send it to the client without reading it again.
But the process could run out of memory if I do that. So is it better to
read from disk twice? Or is it better to read once and risk running out of
memory.

There is one other option, and that is to add a two second delay before
retrieving the time modified, but then who can guarantee that the file was
not changed in that two second window.

I use Malwarebytes Premium, and so far I have not had problems. But I
hardly ever edit single file wikis either. Mostly just data folders, which
just overwrite without checking since the state is stored in the Node
process.

If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas,
feel free to comment.

Arlen

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Anders Jonsson <
Post by Anders Jonsson
Hi!
Using the 2.0.8-nexe I get the following message when the 412 error occurs
412 ifmatch "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737720000"
412 etag "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737721000"
412 caused by difference in modified
(Regarding antivirus programs I get the error with "normal" settings, but
so far I haven't been able to produce this error when _testing_ with
"real-time protection" completely turned off...)
//Anders
Post by Arlen Beiler
The best that I can figure is that it is some kind of problem on the file
system. But I don't know which of two problems it is. Either it is because
of the inode, or because of the modified time.
I made a new release which will give more info about the 412 error in the
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.8
Use the TiddlyServer-2.0.8-nexe zips. As always, when upgrading, unzip
the folder and copy the settings.json file into it rather than copying the
files into your old folder.
Arlen
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Eskha
2017-10-25 16:05:54 UTC
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Hi Arlen,

On windows 7 with Firefox, I also have a lot of XMLHttpRequest: 412 errors,
with the following error in TiddlyWiki: "TypeError: xhr is undefined" and
in the command line:

[2017-10-25T17:57:45.141+-200] PUT 127.0.0.1 200 127.0.0.1
/my_wiki/No
tes.html 494.586 ms - -
412 ifmatch "1125899906935583-8410702-1508947064000"
412 etag "1125899906935583-8410702-1508947065000"
412 caused by difference in modified

I hope you can fin a solution: TiddlyServer is otherwise really useful.

Best regards.

Eskha
Post by Arlen Beiler
Thank you.
I could calculate the file hash and use that as the Etag, but I would need
to read the file once (in chunks) to calculate the hash, and then again to
send it to the client. Or I could store the entire file in memory after
calculating the hash, and send it to the client without reading it again.
But the process could run out of memory if I do that. So is it better to
read from disk twice? Or is it better to read once and risk running out of
memory.
There is one other option, and that is to add a two second delay before
retrieving the time modified, but then who can guarantee that the file was
not changed in that two second window.
I use Malwarebytes Premium, and so far I have not had problems. But I
hardly ever edit single file wikis either. Mostly just data folders, which
just overwrite without checking since the state is stored in the Node
process.
If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas,
feel free to comment.
Arlen
Post by Anders Jonsson
Hi!
Using the 2.0.8-nexe I get the following message when the 412 error
412 ifmatch "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737720000"
412 etag "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737721000"
412 caused by difference in modified
(Regarding antivirus programs I get the error with "normal" settings, but
so far I haven't been able to produce this error when _testing_ with
"real-time protection" completely turned off...)
//Anders
Post by Arlen Beiler
The best that I can figure is that it is some kind of problem on the
file system. But I don't know which of two problems it is. Either it is
because of the inode, or because of the modified time.
I made a new release which will give more info about the 412 error in
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.8
Use the TiddlyServer-2.0.8-nexe zips. As always, when upgrading, unzip
the folder and copy the settings.json file into it rather than copying the
files into your old folder.
Arlen
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coda coder
2017-10-25 19:06:37 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas,
feel free to comment.
Success (fingers crossed).

Win7, Microsoft Security Essentials set to exclude my TW folders (and the
TS install folder) and... no errors!

Here's hoping it continues!

Thanks, Arlen.

Coda
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coda coder
2017-10-25 20:18:05 UTC
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Damn. I spoke too soon. Now I'm seeing the error again (same as posted by
Eskha). It's really frustrating -- it's been running fine for *many*
hours. And I can't blame AV any more.

Sorry.
Post by coda coder
Post by Arlen Beiler
If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas,
feel free to comment.
Success (fingers crossed).
Win7, Microsoft Security Essentials set to exclude my TW folders (and the
TS install folder) and... no errors!
Here's hoping it continues!
Thanks, Arlen.
Coda
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-26 02:28:32 UTC
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It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this.
Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't
work correctly. Does it make a difference what size file you are working
with? I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their
limits.

For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the
Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it
only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too
much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a
reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions.

Arlen
Post by coda coder
Damn. I spoke too soon. Now I'm seeing the error again (same as posted
by Eskha). It's really frustrating -- it's been running fine for *many*
hours. And I can't blame AV any more.
Sorry.
Post by coda coder
Post by Arlen Beiler
If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas,
feel free to comment.
Success (fingers crossed).
Win7, Microsoft Security Essentials set to exclude my TW folders (and the
TS install folder) and... no errors!
Here's hoping it continues!
Thanks, Arlen.
Coda
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coda coder
2017-10-26 02:51:38 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this.
Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't
work correctly.
No, I don't think so. I have in the past had to add my build folders for
my NW.js apps to the excluded folders list for this exact same reason
(that's why I was annoyed with myself for not thinking of AV myself).
Having checked the settings, they look correct and, if MSE was messing with
me like you suggest, I think I'd know about it.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Does it make a difference what size file you are working with?
I'm only testing with a single file at the moment. It's about 4MB.
Post by Arlen Beiler
I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their limits.
For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the
Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it
only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too
much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a
reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions.
It's hard to say. Largest in that folder would be 24.8MB -- but that's
unusual. Average (excluding that large one) would be about 3MB.

Weird thing is, once it hit the error, the next few times it hit the error
within a save or two, yet, I'd gone 8 or 9 hours on that first stint
without issue. Weird, or what...

Coda
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-26 03:05:33 UTC
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The other thing I am wondering about is write caching. But that shouldn't
be the case on a USB stick, and it should still be consistent.
Post by Arlen Beiler
It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this.
Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't
work correctly.
No, I don't think so. I have in the past had to add my build folders for
my NW.js apps to the excluded folders list for this exact same reason
(that's why I was annoyed with myself for not thinking of AV myself).
Having checked the settings, they look correct and, if MSE was messing with
me like you suggest, I think I'd know about it.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Does it make a difference what size file you are working with?
I'm only testing with a single file at the moment. It's about 4MB.
Post by Arlen Beiler
I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their limits.
For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the
Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it
only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too
much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a
reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions.
It's hard to say. Largest in that folder would be 24.8MB -- but that's
unusual. Average (excluding that large one) would be about 3MB.

Weird thing is, once it hit the error, the next few times it hit the error
within a save or two, yet, I'd gone 8 or 9 hours on that first stint
without issue. Weird, or what...

Coda
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coda coder
2017-10-26 03:09:00 UTC
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I'm using a hard drive.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The other thing I am wondering about is write caching. But that shouldn't
be the case on a USB stick, and it should still be consistent.
Post by Arlen Beiler
It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this.
Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't
work correctly.
No, I don't think so. I have in the past had to add my build folders for
my NW.js apps to the excluded folders list for this exact same reason
(that's why I was annoyed with myself for not thinking of AV myself).
Having checked the settings, they look correct and, if MSE was messing with
me like you suggest, I think I'd know about it.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Does it make a difference what size file you are working with?
I'm only testing with a single file at the moment. It's about 4MB.
Post by Arlen Beiler
I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their limits.
For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the
Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it
only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too
much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a
reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions.
It's hard to say. Largest in that folder would be 24.8MB -- but that's
unusual. Average (excluding that large one) would be about 3MB.
Weird thing is, once it hit the error, the next few times it hit the error
within a save or two, yet, I'd gone 8 or 9 hours on that first stint
without issue. Weird, or what...
Coda
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Mike Manchester
2017-10-22 11:57:02 UTC
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Do you know when the Linux version will be available? I run my TiddlyServer
on both MAC and Linux and would love to help test but also don't want to
loose the ability to edit my files on Linux.
Thanks
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for
nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-22 12:13:01 UTC
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For Linux you can download the bundled.zip one, following the instructions
in the readme. You can install node globally using your package manager,
and then just skip the node installation step.
Post by Mike Manchester
Do you know when the Linux version will be available? I run my
TiddlyServer on both MAC and Linux and would love to help test but also
don't want to loose the ability to edit my files on Linux.
Thanks
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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coda coder
2017-10-26 16:08:11 UTC
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Arlen,

I've been giving this issue some thought. I think the onus is on the user
to setup a backup system -- there are many options available, including the
TS facility. Therefore, if a user somehow manages to save an old version
over a newer version (if not impossible, seems unlikely, I think) then so
be it. I'm saying, make the time-check an option (default "on" I guess)
which I and a few others can turn off. Then, suddenly, TS will become
usable (for me, at any rate).

What do you think?
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@TiddlyTweeter
2017-10-26 18:25:57 UTC
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The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me from
when I started.

I have formed an OPINION on it.

(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A
plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it
though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and
running--something only they can do.

(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good ones
give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they are
dedicated to that one task.

Best wishes
Josiah
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-27 12:38:37 UTC
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The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete version
history. I can disable e-tags if someone is using backups and they won't
lose anything.

The other option is to add a setting that would allow you to set a time
window within which an e-tag is valid. So if most of your e-tags are off by
one second, you can set a window of five seconds and a request with an Etag
that is within 5 seconds of the modified time will get saved.

On Oct 26, 2017 2:25 PM, "@TiddlyTweeter" <***@assays.tv> wrote:

The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me from
when I started.

I have formed an OPINION on it.

(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A
plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it
though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and
running--something only they can do.

(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good ones
give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they are
dedicated to that one task.

Best wishes
Josiah
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@TiddlyTweeter
2017-10-27 13:06:31 UTC
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Ciao Arlen
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete
version history.
Right. I think that is more accurate and alerts users its advisable to do
"redundant backup" too. Its just basic when you invest effort into projects
to do that. The what-is-ness of conventional backup to a different
location/disk has merit that IMO constantly needs emphasizing as primary.

It's great you want to support versioning. I benefit from it. But I never
think that somehow its an obligation. Its great you get the TW working for
free already.

Best wishes
Josiah
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coda coder
2017-10-27 14:35:42 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete
version history. I can disable e-tags if someone is using backups and they
won't lose anything.
I don't know the detail, unfortunately, but if disabling e-tags is in
essence what I was asking you for, that's the option I (personally) would
prefer.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The other option is to add a setting that would allow you to set a time
window within which an e-tag is valid. So if most of your e-tags are off by
one second, you can set a window of five seconds and a request with an Etag
that is within 5 seconds of the modified time will get saved.
There's a difference between backing up a TW when it is first opened from
disk and backing up on a save-by-save basis. I'm assuming we're talking
about the former, not the latter. The former is what I assume you mean by
"version history".

I already have that in place and don't see any need to change it, though I
maybe would if I felt the need -- can't imagine what that need might be
though.

As regards the time window... any code that takes a "best guess" at the
appropriate period of time is likely to suffer from distrust. Also, I have
some wikis that are open for weeks and many others that are transient
throughout a single day. Some are modified a lot, others rarely. I just
don't know what time period I'd pick. And then I'd always wonder if my
next save was going to suffer a 412 because I'd chosen a poor "best guess"
period. Hence, distrust.

Really, honestly, I'd prefer no time checking at all. Then, as I said
above, TS would become usable (and, trustworthy).
Post by Arlen Beiler
The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me
from when I started.
I have formed an OPINION on it.
(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A
plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it
though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and
running--something only they can do.
(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good ones
give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they are
dedicated to that one task.
Best wishes
Josiah
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coda coder
2017-10-27 14:41:27 UTC
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Let me say this another way...

A PUT request is an undeniable request made by the client, Honor it.
Honor it and let the issuer own the consequences.
Post by coda coder
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete
version history. I can disable e-tags if someone is using backups and they
won't lose anything.
I don't know the detail, unfortunately, but if disabling e-tags is in
essence what I was asking you for, that's the option I (personally) would
prefer.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The other option is to add a setting that would allow you to set a time
window within which an e-tag is valid. So if most of your e-tags are off by
one second, you can set a window of five seconds and a request with an Etag
that is within 5 seconds of the modified time will get saved.
There's a difference between backing up a TW when it is first opened from
disk and backing up on a save-by-save basis. I'm assuming we're talking
about the former, not the latter. The former is what I assume you mean by
"version history".
I already have that in place and don't see any need to change it, though I
maybe would if I felt the need -- can't imagine what that need might be
though.
As regards the time window... any code that takes a "best guess" at the
appropriate period of time is likely to suffer from distrust. Also, I have
some wikis that are open for weeks and many others that are transient
throughout a single day. Some are modified a lot, others rarely. I just
don't know what time period I'd pick. And then I'd always wonder if my
next save was going to suffer a 412 because I'd chosen a poor "best guess"
period. Hence, distrust.
Really, honestly, I'd prefer no time checking at all. Then, as I said
above, TS would become usable (and, trustworthy).
Post by Arlen Beiler
The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me
from when I started.
I have formed an OPINION on it.
(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A
plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it
though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and
running--something only they can do.
(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good
ones give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they
are dedicated to that one task.
Best wishes
Josiah
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-28 01:37:15 UTC
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The time window would work something like this.

Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and the
changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on another
computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the first
computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they
automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled,
your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already
grabbed them as soon as they were written.

The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version, and
the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place.

Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would be
able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer
than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10
seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save.
This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it
according to the need.

Interesting thought, I will consider it.

Arlen
Post by coda coder
Let me say this another way...
A PUT request is an undeniable request made by the client, Honor it.
Honor it and let the issuer own the consequences.
Post by coda coder
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete
version history. I can disable e-tags if someone is using backups and they
won't lose anything.
I don't know the detail, unfortunately, but if disabling e-tags is in
essence what I was asking you for, that's the option I (personally) would
prefer.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The other option is to add a setting that would allow you to set a time
window within which an e-tag is valid. So if most of your e-tags are off by
one second, you can set a window of five seconds and a request with an Etag
that is within 5 seconds of the modified time will get saved.
There's a difference between backing up a TW when it is first opened from
disk and backing up on a save-by-save basis. I'm assuming we're talking
about the former, not the latter. The former is what I assume you mean by
"version history".
I already have that in place and don't see any need to change it, though
I maybe would if I felt the need -- can't imagine what that need might be
though.
As regards the time window... any code that takes a "best guess" at the
appropriate period of time is likely to suffer from distrust. Also, I have
some wikis that are open for weeks and many others that are transient
throughout a single day. Some are modified a lot, others rarely. I just
don't know what time period I'd pick. And then I'd always wonder if my
next save was going to suffer a 412 because I'd chosen a poor "best guess"
period. Hence, distrust.
Really, honestly, I'd prefer no time checking at all. Then, as I said
above, TS would become usable (and, trustworthy).
Post by Arlen Beiler
The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me
from when I started.
I have formed an OPINION on it.
(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A
plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it
though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and
running--something only they can do.
(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good
ones give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they
are dedicated to that one task.
Best wishes
Josiah
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coda coder
2017-10-28 04:15:28 UTC
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Post by Arlen Beiler
The time window would work something like this.
Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and
the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on
another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the
first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they
automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled,
your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already
grabbed them as soon as they were written.
That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using
single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works. Arlen, seriously, I
admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing
you. Because the etag system is failing you, *your* system, TS, is
suffering as a result.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version, and
the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place.
Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would be
able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer
than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10
seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save.
This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it
according to the need.
Nifty idea. But again, it's not needed, IMO. You're trying to fix an etag
issue, not a TS issue, per se.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Interesting thought, I will consider it.
Are you referring to my *bloody-minded* "A PUT request is an undeniable
request..." statement? Having thought about it more, I'd go even further
-- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what
needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved. That's a showstopper, for
me. :/

Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...

{
...
"ts-options" : {
"enable-etag": false // default true
}
}

:)
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Arlen Beiler
2017-11-03 16:28:49 UTC
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Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.

I don't have time for another release right now, so just download or clone
master, and then copy your settings.json file and the tiddlywiki folder
from your old version into master.

If you were using the nexe version, just copy node.exe in from somewhere
else if you don't want to install it globally and you'll be good to go.

You can download the the node.exe from NodeJS.org. See my notes about a
portable install in the installation instructions.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The time window would work something like this.
Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and
the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on
another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the
first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they
automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled,
your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already
grabbed them as soon as they were written.
That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using
single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works. Arlen, seriously, I
admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing
you. Because the etag system is failing you, *your* system, TS, is
suffering as a result.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version, and
the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place.
Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would be
able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer
than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10
seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save.
This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it
according to the need.
Nifty idea. But again, it's not needed, IMO. You're trying to fix an etag
issue, not a TS issue, per se.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Interesting thought, I will consider it.
Are you referring to my *bloody-minded* "A PUT request is an undeniable
request..." statement? Having thought about it more, I'd go even further
-- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what
needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved. That's a showstopper, for
me. :/

Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...

{
...
"ts-options" : {
"enable-etag": false // default true
}
}

:)
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coda coder
2017-11-03 17:06:14 UTC
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Cool. Thanks Arlen. It's up an running now - fingers crossed.

I've added:

"etag": "disabled",
"etagWindow": 0,



to my settings. I guess the value of etagWindow doesn't matter when etag
is disabled - right?
Post by Arlen Beiler
Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.
I don't have time for another release right now, so just download or clone
master, and then copy your settings.json file and the tiddlywiki folder
from your old version into master.
If you were using the nexe version, just copy node.exe in from somewhere
else if you don't want to install it globally and you'll be good to go.
You can download the the node.exe from NodeJS.org. See my notes about a
portable install in the installation instructions.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The time window would work something like this.
Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and
the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on
another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the
first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they
automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled,
your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already
grabbed them as soon as they were written.
That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using
single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works. Arlen, seriously, I
admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing
you. Because the etag system is failing you, *your* system, TS, is
suffering as a result.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version,
and the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place.
Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would
be able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer
than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10
seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save.
This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it
according to the need.
Nifty idea. But again, it's not needed, IMO. You're trying to fix an
etag issue, not a TS issue, per se.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Interesting thought, I will consider it.
Are you referring to my *bloody-minded* "A PUT request is an undeniable
request..." statement? Having thought about it more, I'd go even further
-- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what
needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved. That's a showstopper, for
me. :/
Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...
{
...
"ts-options" : {
"enable-etag": false // default true
}
}
:)
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Arlen Beiler
2017-11-03 20:10:05 UTC
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Correct.

No fingers crossed, I wrote the code. If you still get the 412 with
etag:"disabled", that's a bug, not a feature :)

Enjoy,
Arlen
Post by coda coder
Cool. Thanks Arlen. It's up an running now - fingers crossed.
"etag": "disabled",
"etagWindow": 0,
to my settings. I guess the value of etagWindow doesn't matter when etag
is disabled - right?
Post by Arlen Beiler
Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.
I don't have time for another release right now, so just download or
clone master, and then copy your settings.json file and the tiddlywiki
folder from your old version into master.
If you were using the nexe version, just copy node.exe in from somewhere
else if you don't want to install it globally and you'll be good to go.
You can download the the node.exe from NodeJS.org. See my notes about a
portable install in the installation instructions.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The time window would work something like this.
Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and
the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on
another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the
first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they
automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled,
your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already
grabbed them as soon as they were written.
That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using
single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works. Arlen, seriously, I
admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing
you. Because the etag system is failing you, *your* system, TS, is
suffering as a result.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version,
and the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place.
Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would
be able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer
than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10
seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save.
This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it
according to the need.
Nifty idea. But again, it's not needed, IMO. You're trying to fix an
etag issue, not a TS issue, per se.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Interesting thought, I will consider it.
Are you referring to my *bloody-minded* "A PUT request is an undeniable
request..." statement? Having thought about it more, I'd go even further
-- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what
needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved. That's a showstopper, for
me. :/
Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...
{
...
"ts-options" : {
"enable-etag": false // default true
}
}
:)
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coda coder
2017-11-04 13:58:13 UTC
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Uptime = 21 hours. Multiple TWs served, edited, saved.

No glitches.

I think you done gone cracked it ;)
Post by Arlen Beiler
Correct.
No fingers crossed, I wrote the code. If you still get the 412 with
etag:"disabled", that's a bug, not a feature :)
Enjoy,
Arlen
Post by coda coder
Cool. Thanks Arlen. It's up an running now - fingers crossed.
"etag": "disabled",
"etagWindow": 0,
to my settings. I guess the value of etagWindow doesn't matter when etag
is disabled - right?
Post by Arlen Beiler
Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.
I don't have time for another release right now, so just download or
clone master, and then copy your settings.json file and the tiddlywiki
folder from your old version into master.
If you were using the nexe version, just copy node.exe in from somewhere
else if you don't want to install it globally and you'll be good to go.
You can download the the node.exe from NodeJS.org. See my notes about a
portable install in the installation instructions.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The time window would work something like this.
Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and
the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on
another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the
first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they
automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled,
your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already
grabbed them as soon as they were written.
That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using
single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works. Arlen, seriously, I
admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing
you. Because the etag system is failing you, *your* system, TS, is
suffering as a result.
Post by Arlen Beiler
The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version,
and the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place.
Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would
be able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer
than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10
seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save.
This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it
according to the need.
Nifty idea. But again, it's not needed, IMO. You're trying to fix an
etag issue, not a TS issue, per se.
Post by Arlen Beiler
Interesting thought, I will consider it.
Are you referring to my *bloody-minded* "A PUT request is an undeniable
request..." statement? Having thought about it more, I'd go even further
-- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what
needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved. That's a showstopper, for
me. :/
Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...
{
...
"ts-options" : {
"enable-etag": false // default true
}
}
:)
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@TiddlyTweeter
2017-11-04 15:07:26 UTC
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you done gone cracked it

That is a line from a movie. x
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coda coder
2017-11-04 15:13:29 UTC
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Post by coda coder
you done gone cracked it
That is a line from a movie. x
Life imitates art. Whoda thunk it.
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kelsang sherab
2017-11-04 20:08:59 UTC
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What kind of testers are you looking for?

I am happy to learn but I have no proper coding skills.

cheers
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for
nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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Arlen Beiler
2017-11-04 21:08:05 UTC
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Just people who know how to select the console output and copy it into an
email whenever something crashes. Or open text files and email their
contents. Everyone was begging me for some kind of bundled executable, so I
threw this in to see how it would work. It took a little to rework the
code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on whether or not it works, so I'm
guessing maybe it does :) The installation instructions are at the
beginning of this thread.

Arlen
Post by kelsang sherab
What kind of testers are you looking for?
I am happy to learn but I have no proper coding skills.
cheers
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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coda coder
2017-11-05 18:38:37 UTC
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It took a little to rework the code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on
whether or not it works, so I'm guessing maybe it does :)
Yeah, "maybe it does". Passed 48 hour uptime mark. No problems.

:)
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TonyM
2017-11-08 23:59:46 UTC
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Arlen,

Post Script

I almost have a practical way of exporting files and commands from
tiddlywiki to the Operating system. Node or single file.

*My only hump is to export files with my desired file extension without
being forced to use txt .tid and .json (cry for help)*

However since the settings.json is a json file have you thought of using
tiddlywiki as an interface, to create and update the settings, file? It
could code away the complexity for users. But it would need to bypass the
tiddler formating of the json file.

I am happy to work on this for you. Once I get passed the above hump.

That is a tiddlywiki based generation of those files.

Regards
Tony
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TonyM
2017-11-08 23:54:10 UTC
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Arlen,

I did not see anything on the console with 412 errors that I recall. I am
now using the latest version a lot so I am giving it a "soak" test.

Was there a debug setting I should just use the console - in my case,
Windows 10, the command window that appears.

Lovely work!

Regards
Tony
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TonyM
2017-11-14 06:06:53 UTC
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Arlen,

I am running TiddlyServer 2.0.8 and getting an increasing number of 412
Errors.
Is this version sufficient or must I do as you note "Ok, I've added this
feature to master and updated the readme.", if so can you explain master?

I was wondering what the state of play was.

The console reports errors Usually of this form
412 ifmatch "6473924464444737-1972104-1510635138000"
412 etag "6473924464444737-1972104-1510635139000"
412 caused by difference in modified

412 ifmatch "6473924464444737-1972720-1510637216000"
412 etag "6473924464444737-1972720-1510637217000"
412 caused by difference in modified

Perhaps obvious to all are the trailing 000 and one digit apart. Is the
backup occurring between this?
In an example case the console item before took 0.714 ms and the one after
an error took 4,453 ms
So it seems plausible the process takes more than one second.

- I have multiple file based wiki's, I access though tiddlyServer and
none seem immune, from this error. except when I turn off Autosave.
- Smaller wikis are no less likely to have this Problem.
- Should Every save result in a new backup file?
- I am running on Top of an SSD with 16GB Ram so should be getting fast
responses

In Response to errors, I Copy the content of the current tiddler, which did
not save, reload, find the tiddler and paste the content in. Occasionally I
can cope, but of late it is getting harder.

Thanks
Tony
Post by Arlen Beiler
Just people who know how to select the console output and copy it into an
email whenever something crashes. Or open text files and email their
contents. Everyone was begging me for some kind of bundled executable, so I
threw this in to see how it would work. It took a little to rework the
code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on whether or not it works, so I'm
guessing maybe it does :) The installation instructions are at the
beginning of this thread.
Arlen
Post by kelsang sherab
What kind of testers are you looking for?
I am happy to learn but I have no proper coding skills.
cheers
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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Arlen Beiler
2017-11-20 07:58:26 UTC
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412 errors show up whenever they happen. I will add a debug setting later.

I am planning to add an admin screen to change settings at some point.

I am hoping to push a release soon, but for now you will need to use master
to make use of the Etag settings I added.

Hope that helps
-Arlen

On Nov 14, 2017 14:06, "TonyM" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Arlen,

I am running TiddlyServer 2.0.8 and getting an increasing number of 412
Errors.
Is this version sufficient or must I do as you note "Ok, I've added this
feature to master and updated the readme.", if so can you explain master?

I was wondering what the state of play was.

The console reports errors Usually of this form
412 ifmatch "6473924464444737-1972104-1510635138000"
412 etag "6473924464444737-1972104-1510635139000"

412 caused by difference in modified

412 ifmatch "6473924464444737-1972720-1510637216000"
412 etag "6473924464444737-1972720-1510637217000"

412 caused by difference in modified

Perhaps obvious to all are the trailing 000 and one digit apart. Is the
backup occurring between this?
In an example case the console item before took 0.714 ms and the one after
an error took 4,453 ms
So it seems plausible the process takes more than one second.

- I have multiple file based wiki's, I access though tiddlyServer and
none seem immune, from this error. except when I turn off Autosave.
- Smaller wikis are no less likely to have this Problem.
- Should Every save result in a new backup file?
- I am running on Top of an SSD with 16GB Ram so should be getting fast
responses

In Response to errors, I Copy the content of the current tiddler, which did
not save, reload, find the tiddler and paste the content in. Occasionally I
can cope, but of late it is getting harder.

Thanks
Tony
Post by Arlen Beiler
Just people who know how to select the console output and copy it into an
email whenever something crashes. Or open text files and email their
contents. Everyone was begging me for some kind of bundled executable, so I
threw this in to see how it would work. It took a little to rework the
code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on whether or not it works, so I'm
guessing maybe it does :) The installation instructions are at the
beginning of this thread.
Arlen
Post by kelsang sherab
What kind of testers are you looking for?
I am happy to learn but I have no proper coding skills.
cheers
Post by Arlen Beiler
Good Morning everyone,
I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support
for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to
https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download
one of the nexe builds.
For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The
settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is
in the dist folder. Let me know how it works.
Thanks,
Arlen
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