Discussion:
[tw] In search of the perfect footnote plugin. What else does the Skeeves footnotefilter need?
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Jan
2016-08-12 00:03:29 UTC
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Hello.
I was very happy to find Stephan HradekÂŽs footnote template and
especially the concept of the footnote filter
(http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter).
I would like to modify it in a way that it shows the footnotes of the
Tiddlers in the storyriver. I thought of this change:

<dl>
<$list filter="[list[$:/StoryList]search[||footnote}}]each[title]]">
<dt><$view field="title"/></dt>
<$list filter="[is[current]match:text/\{\{(.*?)\|\|footnote\}\}/(g)]" variable="footnote">
<dd><<footnote>></dd>
</$list>
</$list>
</dl>

In skeeve's TiddlyStuff this works fine, you would get a pretty "Endnote
Tiddler".

But importing the Tiddlers
footnote <http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#footnote>
footnote.CSS <http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#footnote.CSS>
Footnotes <http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Footnotes>
Idea for a footnote filter
<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter>
to my TW I encountered problems.
Even Stephans original footnote filter just shows the title but not the
footnotes.
So - Is there a secret ingredient?

Thanks for help,
Jan
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'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
2016-08-12 01:00:38 UTC
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Hi Jan,

You do not mention, but Stephan did write it was necessary
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js


Birthe
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Jan
2016-08-12 09:36:09 UTC
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Hej Birthe,
I forgot to write in my Email - I imported that one as well. With no
effect, alas.
May it be the RegExpFilters(
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#RegExpFilters ) ?
<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js>
How do you install them? Is it the two .js at the bottom. In fact i just
crashed my TW importing them...
I'll keep on trying.

Jan
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan,
You do not mention, but Stephan did write it was necessary
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js
Birthe
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PMario
2016-08-12 14:24:24 UTC
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Post by Jan
I forgot to write in my Email - I imported that one as well. With no
effect, alas.
May it be the RegExpFilters (
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#RegExpFilters ) ?
<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js>
I'm not 100% sure, but I think you should use the core regexp filters [1],
if needed, instead and not us a plugin, from a 5.0.8-beta TW.

[1]
http://tiddlywiki.com/#regexp%20Operator%20(Examples):%5B%5Bregexp%20Operator%20(Examples)%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bregexp%20Operator%5D%5D

I'd need to have a closer look, but I don't even think you need the regexp
filter for your use case.

-m
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Jan
2016-08-12 20:08:15 UTC
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Hallo Mario,
thanks a lot, but I did not manage to find a beta-version of
$:/core/modules/filters.js
<http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters.js>
that does not crash my TW (Which means it producesthe embarrassing
"Internal JavaScript Error" when reopening).
I Think on skeeves this should already have been a 5.0.8b version.

These are the Tiddlers I imported:

1. $:/core/modules/filters/field.js
<http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Ffield.js>
2. $:/core/modules/filters.js
<http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters.js>
3. $:/core/modules/filters/match.js
<http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js>

Match.js seems which Stephan indicate as necessary does not crash the TW
- but has no effect either.

If you would be so gentle to have a close look:
I prepared this on http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/ just press
"recent Issues" in the Welcome.Tiddler.

Thanks a lot
Jan
Post by Jan
I forgot to write in my Email - I imported that one as well. With
no effect, alas.
May it be the RegExpFilters(
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#RegExpFilters ) ?
<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js>
I'm not 100% sure, but I think you should use the core regexp filters
[1], if needed, instead and not us a plugin, from a 5.0.8-beta TW.
[1]
http://tiddlywiki.com/#regexp%20Operator%20(Examples):%5B%5Bregexp%20Operator%20(Examples)%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bregexp%20Operator%5D%5D
I'd need to have a closer look, but I don't even think you need the
regexp filter for your use case.
-m
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Josiah
2016-08-12 09:53:50 UTC
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Ciao Birthe & Jan

Comments, not as a programmer or software problem solver, but as a
researcher ....

1 - Notes are VALUABLE. Are key. They reflect MY thinking.

2 - The key point for me about notes & reflections, is they are often
EMERGENT thought.

3 - It remains important for me that as the notes grow THEY can
increasingly be used to SHAPE the primary content, in order for MY pattern
of understanding to emerge.

Of course this is not going to help get coding actually done. But I think
its work re-iterating aspects of essential purpose.

Best wishes
Josiah
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan,
You do not mention, but Stephan did write it was necessary
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js
Birthe
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Thomas Elmiger
2016-11-10 22:47:06 UTC
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Hi folks

Just wanted to let you know: My footnotes macro is up and running as a
hack:
http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#TextStretch%20Footnotes%20Extracted%20as%20List

A bit complicated, but pure wikitext :)

Call it alpha, beta or proof of concept 
 try it and let me know what you
think. (But don’t expect timely responses, I dont have enough time for
anything at the moment.)

Cheers, Thomas
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Jan
2016-11-14 22:54:53 UTC
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Hi Thomas,
A great thing you did there. I bit my teeth out on that problem...
Would it be possible to apply your <<extract>> function to a list of
tiddlers generated by a filter?
For example I would like to have an endnotefilter to sort out all
footnotes in the storyriver.

Thanks a lot Jan
Post by Thomas Elmiger
Hi folks
Just wanted to let you know: My footnotes macro is up and running as a
http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#TextStretch%20Footnotes%20Extracted%20as%20List
A bit complicated, but pure wikitext :)
Call it alpha, beta or proof of concept 
 try it and let me know what
you think. (But don’t expect timely responses, I dont have enough time
for anything at the moment.)
Cheers, Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2016-11-15 21:47:12 UTC
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Hi Jan

I did a test and found out that my extract macro is not very stable. A space in a tiddler title makes it crash 


Your use case is possible, but only under ideal conditions.

So we need some optimizations first.

Kind regards, Thomas
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Jan
2016-11-15 22:04:29 UTC
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Hi Thomas,
I think such an extract-plugin would be a really great help, not only
for footnotes but also for presentations.
You are doing this in javascript or in wikitext?

Yours Jan
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan
I did a test and found out that my extract macro is not very stable. A space in a tiddler title makes it crash …
Your use case is possible, but only under ideal conditions.
So we need some optimizations first.
Kind regards, Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2016-11-16 06:30:27 UTC
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Hi Jan
The extract macro does not use any Javascript. The preview for TW 5.1.14 shows some new filter options, I hope they will be helpful for polishing 

Have a nice day!
Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2016-11-16 23:23:06 UTC
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Hi again

I smashed some bugs and the extract macro is on a new level of stability
now (moved from -3 to -1 or so). You can find a new demo here:

http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html

No time for explanations right now – good night and good luck!
Thomas
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan
The extract macro does not use any Javascript. The preview for TW 5.1.14
shows some new filter options, I hope they will be helpful for polishing 

Have a nice day!
Thomas
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Jan
2016-11-17 08:59:27 UTC
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Hi Thomas,
you do not know ho long I wanted to have something like this.
Cool, Terrific...

This takes TiddlyWiki a big step forward toward being scientific tool.

Thanks a lot, Thomas!
Jan
Post by Thomas Elmiger
Hi again
I smashed some bugs and the extract macro is on a new level of
http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html
No time for explanations right now – good night and good luck!
Thomas
Hi Jan
The extract macro does not use any Javascript. The preview for TW
5.1.14 shows some new filter options, I hope they will be helpful
for polishing 

Have a nice day!
Thomas
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Jan
2016-11-19 21:07:11 UTC
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Hi Thomas ... Hallo to all scientific Users of TW.
Thanks again Thomas for your work which provides the first
Footnote-Plugin which is easy to use and has the possibility to collect
the notes at the end.
I packed all your Macros and css in three Tiddlers and made some minor
changes for my purposes:
-changed the shorthand to uppercase <<Ref "footnote">>.
-made some changes in the style
-altered the Filter for the Endnotes so that it only shows the Tiddlers
with annotations in the storyline [list[$:/StoryList]search[Ref ]].
( One Question: How can I make a filter so that it just chooses Tiddlers
where Ref is written with a capital R?)
- All Tiddlers and a short documentation which can be found under
http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#About%20Footnotes.

Yours Jan
Post by Jan
Hi Thomas,
you do not know ho long I wanted to have something like this.
Cool, Terrific...
This takes TiddlyWiki a big step forward toward being scientific tool.
Thanks a lot, Thomas!
Jan
Post by Thomas Elmiger
Hi again
I smashed some bugs and the extract macro is on a new level of
http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html
No time for explanations right now – good night and good luck!
Thomas
Hi Jan
The extract macro does not use any Javascript. The preview for TW
5.1.14 shows some new filter options, I hope they will be helpful
for polishing 

Have a nice day!
Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2016-12-26 20:28:35 UTC
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Hi Jan

There is a new and more stable version 0.9 of my extract macro available at
http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro – see release notes for other
changes.

Are you still producing documents with footnotes? (Nice styles, by the way!)

All the best, Thomas
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Jan
2016-12-28 23:01:17 UTC
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Hi Thomas,
your extract macro put me a great deal forward in transforming TW into
an instrument for research and especially for collecting information and
writing thesis.
Replacing the extract-plugin with the new version I had to find out that
the footnotes in slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com vanish. I do not know why
this happens but since the old version did a great job I would stick to
that one...
Best wishes Jan
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan
There is a new and more stable version 0.9 of my extract macro
available at http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro – see
release notes for other changes.
Are you still producing documents with footnotes? (Nice styles, by the way!)
All the best, Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2016-12-28 23:11:20 UTC
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Hi Jan

I have just updated my own example on http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html so we
have a working example for the new version again. While I updated the
collection of the footnotes I integrated your search[<ref ] operator in the
filter – very elegant, thank you!

I will look at the differences in using the list widget again later. There
is no hurry in updating as long as you don’t run into problems.

Just wanted to let you know.

All the best, Thomas
Post by Jan
Hi Thomas,
your extract macro put me a great deal forward in transforming TW into an
instrument for research and especially for collecting information and
writing thesis.
Replacing the extract-plugin with the new version I had to find out that
the footnotes in slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com vanish. I do not know why
this happens but since the old version did a great job I would stick to
that one...
Best wishes Jan
Hi Jan
There is a new and more stable version 0.9 of my extract macro available
at http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro – see release notes for
other changes.
Are you still producing documents with footnotes? (Nice styles, by the way!)
All the best, Thomas
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Jan
2016-12-28 23:47:06 UTC
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Hi Thomas,
this makes me happy, because you solved one of my most persistent
problems in TW. I also made an Editor- toolbar-button to create
footnotes you might like.

My next idea would be to use the extract-macro for collecting slides for
presentation.
Because my usual Tiddlers are too long for slides, I would like to be
able to mark paragraphs within Tiddlers that have a good length for a
slide.
The extract-macro could pick the slides out of the Tiddlers on the bases
of a list (e.g. the storylist) and I am thinking about a mechanism to
display them one after the other.
What do you think of that?

Yours Jan
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan
I have just updated my own example on http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html
so we have a working example for the new version again. While I
updated the collection of the footnotes I integrated your search[<ref
] operator in the filter – very elegant, thank you!
I will look at the differences in using the list widget again later.
There is no hurry in updating as long as you don’t run into problems.
Just wanted to let you know.
All the best, Thomas
Hi Thomas,
your extract macro put me a great deal forward in transforming TW
into an instrument for research and especially for collecting
information and writing thesis.
Replacing the extract-plugin with the new version I had to find
out that the footnotes in slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com
<http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com> vanish. I do not know why
this happens but since the old version did a great job I would
stick to that one...
Best wishes Jan
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan
There is a new and more stable version 0.9 of my extract macro
available at http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro
<http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro> – see release
notes for other changes.
Are you still producing documents with footnotes? (Nice styles, by the way!)
All the best, Thomas
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Thomas Elmiger
2017-01-06 20:54:22 UTC
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Hi Jan

Sorry for replying so late. There are so many projects to work on. I am sure we are thinking along the same lines concerning extraction and presentation – your remote control is a fantastic concept! I hope I will find some time to test it and play with it 
 but it deals with tiddlers, so we would need another base for presenting snippets, right?

All the best, Thomas
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Jan
2017-01-06 23:26:01 UTC
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Hi Thomas,
thanks, for me it's the same.
I have been thinking on the snippet-question for some time now.
To my mind there is two types and three Use-Cases for these
presentationSnippets. It is useful to <mark> the UseCases equally
because there is a big overlap.

Types: there should be Snippets visible in the normal TiddlerView and
hidden Snippets that do not show.

Use-Cases:
1. Reading and memorizing content like cue cards on phone-sized devices.
Here it would be best be able to browse through the cards with swipe
gestures.

2. Presentations with visual content...where I would like to use the
TiddlyMap Plugin (as I just wrote to Felix in this list and started to
try on http://slidemap.tiddlyspot.com/)
2a. with remote the snippet of the current Tiddler would be shown in
the remote and set to be visible by clicking.
2b. without a remote we would have to think of a button to navigate to
the next step in the presentation.

I encountered a further Idea for the footnotes-plugin.
Would it be possible to assign a special class to footnotes that are at
the top of the tiddler-Text so that they are shown behind the Tiddler-Title?

So best wishes ... and a happy 2017 for you
Jan
Post by 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki
Hi Jan
Sorry for replying so late. There are so many projects to work on. I am sure we are thinking along the same lines concerning extraction and presentation – your remote control is a fantastic concept! I hope I will find some time to test it and play with it … but it deals with tiddlers, so we would need another base for presenting snippets, right?
All the best, Thomas
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Greg Molyneux
2017-09-22 19:14:58 UTC
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Jan and Thomas,

Forgive me for resurrecting this old thread, but I wanted to thank you both
for the efforts you've put into the footnotes problem in TiddlyWiki, your
work goes a long way to making this tool much more useful for me. The
contributions you've both made are simple, clean and elegant. Mind you, by
simple I mean in presentation, not in implementation - I could not have
coded the beginnings of such a solution.

I've actually taken the code I'm using from Jan's implementation, and while
I like the inline display of footnotes when selected, I've modified it's
appearance back to something more similar to Thomas' in several small ways
- a discrete background behind the footnote number in the tiddlers, a
darker number itself, and I returned the ordered list in the footnote
tiddler at the bottom of the story river to ease association with original
tiddlers up the river. The code in Thomas' implementation helped me
achieve a look that suits me well in Jan's code.

In an unrelated post some time back, I saw a comment from Alberto Molina
(another TW champion I'd like to wholeheartedly thank) about what he uses
TW for. He'd mentioned nearly finishing his thesis in Zotero and
LibreOffice, and that TW was better served for notes, comments, ideas, etc.
about the references he manages in Zotero. I agree with this completely as
there's no point in re-inventing the wheel. Combined with TW and
TiddlyMap, along with several other fantastic extensions and plugins this
helps me coordinate, track, plan, and utilize data in ways I couldn't have
managed before.

Zotero allows you to export to the clipboard a bibliographic entry for
resources it contains, and this is ideal for attachment as a footnote
entry. It allows me to easily look up the original reference in Zotero,
open it in a new tab from Zotero, and be about as integrated with TW as I'd
really need. Direct links would be nice, but as I understand it, Zotero
will not for security reasons allow direct links back into its DB.

Note that I can almost use a direct link from Zotero, if I first
right-click on an entry, select "Generate report from item..." and then
copy the zotero:// link from the browser to use as a footnote. This still
requires me to copy/paste from my footnote into a new tab in my browser
before being able to open the zotero report, and then I have to search for
the original entry anyway, but it is another option for integration.

This email is the long way around to a short point. I wanted to thank Jan,
Thomas, Alberto, Felix, Jeremy, Tobias, and dozens of other remarkably
talented people working with TiddlyWiki for the remarkable tool, and the
fantastic extensions you've all provided. While it takes a new user some
time how to tie this all together, the possibilities are amazing.
Post by Jan
Hello.
I was very happy to find Stephan HradekÂŽs footnote template and
especially the concept of the footnote filter (
http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter).
I would like to modify it in a way that it shows the footnotes of the
<dl>
<$list filter="[list[$:/StoryList]search[||footnote}}]each[title]]">
<dt><$view field="title"/></dt>
<$list filter="[is[current]match:text/\{\{(.*?)\|\|footnote\}\}/(g)]" variable="footnote">
<dd><<footnote>></dd>
</$list>
</$list>
</dl>
In skeeve's TiddlyStuff this works fine, you would get a pretty "Endnote
Tiddler".
But importing the Tiddlers
footnote <http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#footnote>
footnote.CSS <http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#footnote.CSS>
Footnotes <http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Footnotes>
Idea for a footnote filter
<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter>
to my TW I encountered problems.
Even Stephans original footnote filter just shows the title but not the
footnotes.
So - Is there a secret ingredient?
Thanks for help,
Jan
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Felix Küppers
2017-10-07 16:52:54 UTC
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Hi Greg,

thanks for your kind words. glad you enjoy working with tiddlymap.
Zotero allows you to export to the clipboard a bibliographic entry for resources it contains, and this is ideal for attachment as a footnote entry. It allows me to easily look up the original reference in Zotero, open it in a new tab from Zotero, and be about as integrated with TW as I'd really need. Direct links would be nice, but as I understand it, Zotero will not for security reasons allow direct links back into its DB.

I also wrote my thesis with the help of TW and Zotero, while visualizing authors and their citations with TiddlyMap.
TW and Zotero work great together because Zotero is the perfect tool for storing literature and metadata while TW offers powerful capabilities to link authors, subjects and citations with your own thoughs. However, I agree, it's a shame that Zotero prevents users from directly linking items from within your wiki.

Best wishes
Felix

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 5:03:42 PM UTC-7, Jan wrote:
Hello.
I was very happy to find Stephan HradekÂŽs footnote template and especially the concept of the footnote filter (http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter).
I would like to modify it in a way that it shows the footnotes of the Tiddlers in the storyriver. I thought of this change:

<dl>
<$list filter="[list[$:/StoryList]search[||footnote}}]each[title]]">
<dt><$view field="title"/></dt>
<$list filter="[is[current]match:text/\{\{(.*?)\|\|footnote\}\}/(g)]" variable="footnote">
<dd><<footnote>></dd>
</$list>
</$list>
</dl>

In skeeve's TiddlyStuff this works fine, you would get a pretty "Endnote Tiddler".

But importing the Tiddlers
footnote<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#footnote>
footnote.CSS<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#footnote.CSS>
Footnotes<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Footnotes>
Idea for a footnote filter<http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter>
to my TW I encountered problems.
Even Stephans original footnote filter just shows the title but not the footnotes.
So - Is there a secret ingredient?

Thanks for help,
Jan



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