Discussion:
[tw] Opinion: The TIDDLYFOX problem is only part of it ...
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@TiddlyTweeter
2017-10-04 11:21:29 UTC
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Ciao Tutti

I followed the discussions about the RETIREMENT of DIRECT SAVING in FF 57...

Whilst we are focused here mainly on TiddlyWiki, actual usage of FF beyond
TiddlyWiki comes into the issue strongly too for some users (maybe a
lot????). And that IS a factor in all this. Let me give my USECASE which
may make it clearer ...

1 - Having used FF forever I am faced with MULTIPLE FAILURES of Extensions.
As of yesterday my Firefox is starting to alert me about extensions that
will fail at 57 & offer alternatives that are WebExtension compliant.

2 - The problem is--after trying them--is they are largely crap. They lost
the flexibility that previously they had.

3 - For example: TileTabs, PrintEdit, ClassicThemeRestorer, TabMixPlus ...
all good basic tools that are struggling to survive FF 57, and not doing so
well with the WebExtensions API.

4 - *For brilliant tools like Scrapbook* there is no alternative as yet
even muted. I have 5 years of web-clips in that that will become
inaccessible.

*I seriously believe that the decline of direct file-saving in FF, for
quite a many adept user, is a more complex issue than just TiddlyWiki. *

No person uses a browser for just one thing unless they are in a corner.
This is partly why there is much concern about how to SAVE here now--but,
behind the scenes, I don't think the user concern is JUST about TiddlyWiki,
I think it often implicitly *reflects concern about what is happening in
genera*l.

---

The FF PALEMOON solution route suggested in another thread looks
interesting. But, when I tried it before, I got problems & periodic RSDs.

*I still think the Best Bet right now is to use Firefox ESR that will
continue to run till at least March next year. *

This gives some breathing space to carry-on as before for some months.
During those months I hope some solutions to the FF problem (NOT the TW
problem--which is practically solved in several ways already) may
emerge--or FF will likely become a very Minority Report.

In brief: FF is used for TW & Other Things. And part of the (??our??) user
grief around it is about the Other Things too.

Best wishes
Josiah
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Stan001
2017-10-05 18:18:52 UTC
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Agree, FF will finish itself. i.e becoming marginal by removing the
easiness of customizability (btw one of its main advantages). - Well, I'm
not the youngest and I've seen it soooo many times in technology.

May you rest in peace as memories of you FF will live on ;-)
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Lost Admin
2017-10-06 12:36:38 UTC
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But then what am I supposed to use as a web browser? MSIE/Edge is full of
security holes and Chrome is as much spyware as it is a web browser. I
suppose I could switch over entirely to Apple products and run Safari but I
don't like the lack of upgradability.
Post by Stan001
Agree, FF will finish itself. i.e becoming marginal by removing the
easiness of customizability (btw one of its main advantages). - Well, I'm
not the youngest and I've seen it soooo many times in technology.
May you rest in peace as memories of you FF will live on ;-)
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Arlen Beiler
2017-10-06 12:49:17 UTC
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For Chrome there is Iron (specifically to address the spyware). What about
the TOR browser? How about Beaker Browser? Until just last month, a company
that I work for refused to allow any browser except Internet Explorer. I
could use a portable version, though. That was funny. I think it had
something to do with group policy. I would not say that Edge is full of
holes. And IE has gotten better I think, but I would have to study up on
it.


- https://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php
- https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker
- https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en
- https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+browsers - LOL
- https://www.chromium.org/Home
Post by Lost Admin
But then what am I supposed to use as a web browser? MSIE/Edge is full of
security holes and Chrome is as much spyware as it is a web browser. I
suppose I could switch over entirely to Apple products and run Safari but I
don't like the lack of upgradability.
Post by Stan001
Agree, FF will finish itself. i.e becoming marginal by removing the
easiness of customizability (btw one of its main advantages). - Well, I'm
not the youngest and I've seen it soooo many times in technology.
May you rest in peace as memories of you FF will live on ;-)
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Ramu Rajasekharan
2017-10-10 10:07:58 UTC
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It scares me as part of internet ceasing to be an open space. This seems to
be in line with the general trend where the client is becoming more of a
viewer and most of the work happens in the servers. Like, all these ajax
powered websites are another part of it. Now the browsers are making the
separation between the client and the online data stream stronger with
bigger walls. Soon enough, for things like zotero to be possible, there
might be the need of an online server that stores all the data because
extensions cannot write to the disk and that's how more people will end up
using things like Evernote.

Along with these are the other stuff that bothers me like the sidelining of
RSS feeds and websites that force you to read things in their own interface.

It makes me wonder, for companies like Google who makes money off from
storing data, isn't there a conflict of interest being in the web browser
business and setting web standards? They have been pushing for this dumb
client kinda with their chromebooks and such. Maybe they even saw through
it that having a lean browser that supports the newest standards especially
with respect to things like web sockets will propel the web to move in such
a direction.
Post by @TiddlyTweeter
Ciao Tutti
I followed the discussions about the RETIREMENT of DIRECT SAVING in FF 57...
Whilst we are focused here mainly on TiddlyWiki, actual usage of FF beyond
TiddlyWiki comes into the issue strongly too for some users (maybe a
lot????). And that IS a factor in all this. Let me give my USECASE which
may make it clearer ...
1 - Having used FF forever I am faced with MULTIPLE FAILURES of
Extensions. As of yesterday my Firefox is starting to alert me about
extensions that will fail at 57 & offer alternatives that are WebExtension
compliant.
2 - The problem is--after trying them--is they are largely crap. They lost
the flexibility that previously they had.
3 - For example: TileTabs, PrintEdit, ClassicThemeRestorer, TabMixPlus ...
all good basic tools that are struggling to survive FF 57, and not doing so
well with the WebExtensions API.
4 - *For brilliant tools like Scrapbook* there is no alternative as yet
even muted. I have 5 years of web-clips in that that will become
inaccessible.
*I seriously believe that the decline of direct file-saving in FF, for
quite a many adept user, is a more complex issue than just TiddlyWiki. *
No person uses a browser for just one thing unless they are in a corner.
This is partly why there is much concern about how to SAVE here now--but,
behind the scenes, I don't think the user concern is JUST about TiddlyWiki,
I think it often implicitly *reflects concern about what is happening in
genera*l.
---
The FF PALEMOON solution route suggested in another thread looks
interesting. But, when I tried it before, I got problems & periodic RSDs.
*I still think the Best Bet right now is to use Firefox ESR that will
continue to run till at least March next year. *
This gives some breathing space to carry-on as before for some months.
During those months I hope some solutions to the FF problem (NOT the TW
problem--which is practically solved in several ways already) may
emerge--or FF will likely become a very Minority Report.
In brief: FF is used for TW & Other Things. And part of the (??our??) user
grief around it is about the Other Things too.
Best wishes
Josiah
--
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